McGuinty could not have been so stupid as to believe that once he ran out of other people’s $$ to spend, that the psu’s wouldn’t turn on him.  I didn’t vote Liberal, but I’m glad he got in and has to clean up his own mess.  I’ll vote for him again to make sure that he’s forced to continue the clean-up…

I heard Ken Coran do the old “the Liberals aren’t putting kids first!” routine again today.

That line is getting worn to the point of being embarrassing.  The current battle is all about salaries and benefits; there’s nothing about it that “puts kids first”, except maybe they’ll be first to get kicked if things get nasty.

I’m always amazed how a professioin with well over 100,000 professionals always seems to fall back on empty rhetoric when push comes to shove.  Why not try to make a compelling arguments instead?

Not really a tribute to the adults involved in this farce.

Again, as I have already said on previous threads, this protest has nothing to do with the money.  The union brass agreed to the wage freeze from the outset of talks.  No one in the union expected to have a pay hike. As I said before, the unions even put other cost saving measures on the table, but the government wasn’t interested in saving money.  What Dalton ‘Walker’ is doing is taking his cue from Wisconsin and there’s the rub.

I’ll just jump in and say that our union local, an OECTA local, took a strike vote on Thursday. In this case, the teachers are wanting to meet to sign “the deal” but the board refuses.

It’s an extremely confusing and frustrating time for everyone, but the school boards dismay over the some of the clauses in the original MoU has added a whole new dimension to what should be an interesting fall.

“Again, as I have already said on previous threads, this protest has nothing to do with the money”

Of course it’s about money. That spin might fly elsewhere but not among those who know an little something about public service unions and, oh, every government Ontario has had over the last 40 years.

“No one in the union expected to have a pay hike.”

How do you know this? You’re either the most popular teacher in the province or you’re making sweeping generalizations.

” As I said before, the unions even put other cost saving measures on the table,” 

what specifically Mr. Scott Ng? This must be the best kept secret in Ontario these days.

“What Dalton ‘Walker’ is doing is taking his cue from Wisconsin and there’s the rub.”

Can you prove this? Or is this just another tidbit you picked up from your union?

I’m sorry, Chuck, but you ought to know that the truth is not a popularity contest. 

Back in April, we were treated to a joint session of all education workers represented by the OSSTF in our board.  The main speaker was from HQ and was one of the delegates in attendance at the PDT negotiation meetings with the government.  In her words, none of the union leaders in attendance went into the discussions with any expectation that the government was going to offer any increase, nor did any of the unions have any bargaining position on wages.  In fact, her position was that a wage freeze was ‘understandable’ given the economic situation.  Where they differed was on the grid freeze where it would unfairly affect one specific group of teachers - the young people that we are trying to attract and retain in this profession.

You see, Chuck, the truth may not be popular - in fact it is generally ‘inconvenient’.

“I’m sorry, Chuck, but you ought to know that the truth is not a popularity contest.”

The “truth” as you put it Wain isn’t embedded in the talking points of the unions either.

And you haven’t answered my questions either or provided any proof of your sweeping generalizations.

“Again, as I have already said on previous threads”

Do your own research for once - I’m tired of repeating myself.  As for the ‘talking points’: simple observation of current events - it isn’t rocket science.

Nothing that you’ve posted answers the questions I posed re: your sweeping generalizations Wain.

Why not just say that you have no proof? If you did you’d present it. Linking’s much easier than searching.

A note to all.  Please watch the tone of your comments.  Posts about these topics in the news always generate plenty of heat!

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1211072—ontario-teacher-unions-have-a-public-relations-problem

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1247175—mpps-return-to-legislature-early-to-debate-teacher-wage-legislation

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1242436—catholic-school-boards-say-ontario-government-bargaining-in-bad-faith

No doubt one issue is that a “wage freeze” still wouldn’t generate a “0” increase in spending on overall teacher compensation, would it?

Moving tens of thousands up the salary grid = more spending.

Tens of thousands banking more paid sick days=
more spending in the future.

What the government wants, and what it will try to push on the other 1 million public employees, is a real “0” increase in overall spending.

In the case of OECTA money needed to move some up the grid was found by reduced spending in other areas, unpaid days, reduced sick days, etc.

You’re right John L.

Parents know this all too well also. Actually, the parents I know aren’t as easily led by union spin as they once were.

I agree with you John L:  grid movement does cost more.  However, don’t you find it ironic that the government has felt the need to ‘banter on’ about preferential hiring practices for young teachers?  While I fully agree that young teachers need jobs and should be hired over old codgers like me, trying to entice them into a job where they will have ‘zero’ increase for two years is hardly a good selling point.  Mind you, many of them would probably say that some job is better than none.

Given the number of university grads, and those with a BEd to boot, who are struggling to get work of any sort I suspect the prospect of getting a teaching job, even at entry-level wages, would be a godsend.  Not much need to “entice them”; they’d jump at it!

I agree with John L.  The other options open for newly graduated teachers are call centres and clerking at stores.  Other than teachers college, these graduates haven’t any skills to offer so if they’re unable to find work teaching, other prospective jobs will pay far less and with little or no benefits.

“With all the teacher talk in the news, please read this! Please also pass on to others. This was shared by a friend of mine - it’s worth the read!

• An Editorial from the Orillia newspaper .....
There is a lot of misinformation about teachers these days. Premier Dalton McGuinty, Education Minister Laurel Broten and Ontario PC Leader Tim Hudak are all trying to paint teachers as greedy, bad guys, but here are the facts:

Teachers and the federations accepted a wage freeze months ago. ...It’s a non-issue.

Teachers are concerned about the grid (that only helps younger teachers) and the fact that the government is beginning to withdraw from the pension-plan agreement.

What teachers are most concerned about is that this is actually a union busting. It is a way to end collective bargaining. Teachers have not threatened to strike or take any action, but the government is proposing actions to take away teachers’ right to strike. They have not sat down at the table to negotiate. They basically said, “This is what teachers are going to get, and if they don’t accept it, the government will take away their right to oppose us.” That’s not fair and it’s not democratic.

Very, very, very few teachers actually make $95,000 per year. Most teachers who are at the maximum place on the grid actually make $92,000; however, these are teachers who have two degrees, are specialists in their field of endeavour (like special education) and have taught full time for about 15 years. The average pay of a teacher is about $50,000. A constable first class (college diploma) with the OPP makes $83,000 after three years. A university professor makes about $120,000. The high-end pay for a college teacher is $102,000.

Also, teachers cannot increase their pay through overtime. They can only increase their pay by getting another job. Many others, like the police, can get hired on for extra duties (like chaperoning dances, where the teachers are working for free).

Teachers do not get summers off. They take a 20% pay cut throughout the year to pay for the time they are not employed during the summer. If parents and their offspring want to go to school all summer, then let’s talk about year-round school and stop acting like teachers are getting some free ride.

Teachers do not get paid for after-school programs like councils, meetings, sports, clubs, exchange programs or after-hours field trips. Teachers are paid from the start of the school day to the end of the school day. Everything else is a gimme.

Something else that many don’t realize is that because teachers are not working during the summer, most of them are the backbone of summer and community programs.

The Mike Harris government made a complete mess of education and, in many ways, school has never really recovered. For example, arts programs are still running on shoestring budgets and are slowly falling apart. Mr. McGuinty is pretending that he is the one who has created success in our high schools. Despite all of this nonsense, there’s only one person standing in front of the children on the first day back and it isn’t a politician, a trustee, a superintendent or a principal (all of whom make a lot more than a teacher).

a TDSB teacher rant…..who’s kiddering who?

http://www.itsnotthatserious.net/2012/08/i-am-tdsb-teacher-and-this-is-my-rant.html?spref=fb

Chuck

  I found it entertaining, albeit a bit self-serving.
It appears that teachers, on balance, have to juggle various issues in their work/personal lives like everyone else.

This isn’t 100,000 plus Mother Teresas toiling in the Calcutta slums for goodness sake.

As to the claim that we’ll have a hard time getting good people into the teaching job 10 years from no…????

Good grief John L. - don’t tell me that the rest of us working stiffs have to juggle work/personal lives too!

The only difference between teachers and the rest of us is there choice of profession.