I do agree the education system need more parents involvement, our kids should not be used as political game, we all know great educators do not care about what is going on with the government and union once they at classroom, but this very harsh situation will require teachers, parents and definitely the silent majority of the public to start speak and being active.

We’ve been through this before Nancy, as you say. There’s no reason at all for either government or teacher unions to reinvent the wheel on preserving extra-curriculars.

The following report was the result of six months worth of study and research. It covers all scenarios including using volunteers.

The report itself was supported in April 2001 by all stakeholders with a promise to following recommendations.

One of the recommendations within this report cautions that if some very basic cooperation between gov’t and teachers doesn’t happen to better determine what constitutes a teaching day (teacher job description) then we run the risk of extra-curriculars being used as a political football again.

Well, well, well…..here we are. So who dropped the ball in 2001?

Remembering back, this report was presented to the government mid-April 2001.  Got rave reviews and a promise from all sides to work together. Summer came and went, then Mike Harris announced he was stepping down. The Report gathered dust.

Time to dust this off because it’s paid for and I’m betting very few if any recommendations or options contained within got much air time after it’s hoopla presentation that April in 2001

http://www.ontla.on.ca/library/repository/mon/1000/10294354.pdf

Nice to know about the exacting of such a thing just collecting dust since 2001 and 2012 and we still talk about it. How many generations do we have to wait before it comes into effect and who is behind the dusting?

That is,if parents are engaged. How many parents disengaged for various reasons, and often due to the very culture of a school, its rules/regulation/policies that generates a natural pattern of shedding parents, and attracting the type of parent that is most desired by the administration of the school.

For example - ” There isn’t much parents can do to replace the loss of sports teams. Apparently, regulations require that a certified teacher be on hand to coach.”

How cute, the union encouraging parents to be the volunteers for sports teams, according to the earlier reports, without mentioned that a certified teacher needs to be on hand.

By the way, should not parents demand any extracurricular fees to be refunded, where teachers have withdrawn. P4E, in the 2012 report - “the new food Guide, along with the elimination of student fees, has significantly reduced the funding for clubs, extracurricular activities and athletic programs. 
Something needs to be done to increase monies to
these activities/programs. the elimination of these
activities/programs will have a negative impact on student participation and attendance in schools.
Secondary school principal, Greater Essex County DSB”  http://www.peopleforeducation.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Annual-Report-2012-web.pdf

In a May, 2012 article - “The People for Education survey found that 91 per cent of high schools charge “student activity fees” at the beginning of the year, which run from $10 to as high as $350. Three-quarters of high schools also charge athletic fees of up to $1,000.”
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1201382—course-fees-still-a-reality-for-ontario-high-school-students

Back to parents - shedding parents that do not fully support the union mandate? 

On CBC radio - had a law professor - according to him it is not work to rule. Apparently it is taking a pause, because marking, and other outside activities of teachers, that are not covered under the collective agreement, are considered activities part of taking a pause.
http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/Local+Shows/Ontario/ID/2278211716/

Does this mean, that Ontario parents can looked forward to teachers only marking and grading papers within the hours given under the contract? Will it continue for two years, still insisting it is not work to rule? I have a hard time with the law professor’s interpretation that it is not work to rule.
Will Ontario parents, see empty parking lots as teachers leave to go home, as soon as last bell rings? 

I find it fascinating, how the teachers’ unions have slowly became the power broker, while school boards and the government were complicit and perhaps willing partners, using students and parents as their pawns.

Perhaps the silent majority should stay silent. Especially if it escalates into areas of only grading papers at school. Depending on the backlog that develops, sooner or later the teachers’ union will be in direct violation of the collective agreement. .

Nancy,

“Does this mean, that Ontario parents can looked forward to teachers only marking and grading papers within the hours given under the contract?” 

Not yet, but it may come to that.  To date, we have only been cautioned about extra curricular activities - and in my board, it is a wait and see approach, ie:  let it go for now, but it may have to be cancelled later. There will be differences in job action in different boards depending upon how the union locals decide to proceed.  The only total washout so far in our board was the Grade 9 parent’s night.

“Will it continue for two years, still insisting it is not work to rule?”

To part a of your question - I hope not.  Let’s hope saner heads prevail.  To part b - I’ve never heard this professor before, but marking, lesson prepping and so on during school hours has always been considered work to rule.  Do you think this professor speaks for the unions?

“That is,if parents are engaged. How many parents disengaged for various reasons, and often due to the very culture of a school, its rules/regulation/policies that generates a natural pattern of shedding parents, and attracting the type of parent that is most desired by the administration of the school.”

Have to disagree with you on this Nancy. Parents, engaged or not, proved more than ready to step up and take over and did great jobs for their students.

“” There isn’t much parents can do to replace the loss of sports teams. Apparently, regulations require that a certified teacher be on hand to coach.”

only if it’s at the school proper. Parents can find alternative facilities that will chip in. Also many coaches (yes, some teachers) will show up at that alternative facility.

Some boards even have people outside of teachers doing all of their sports facilitation.

re: school fees - some parents are simply refusing to pay for fees all on their own with no prompting from Kidder and co. What parent in their right mind would pay for a service being withdrawn?

May be on a small scale in the grand scheme of things, but football in TDSB (for those schools with tradition and who take it seriously) will go on, come hell or high water. Even though there is a movement afoot in TDSB to continue with job action more than with a token work-to-rule designated day, we have told our Jr/Sr. players that school staff and community coaching will continue on. How can you look a kid in the face and say there will be no football when these players of all calibre have made both the time and financial commitment to play?  We are in Week 3 at school now and the league commences in a few days. Throwing in the towel now would leave a lot of egg on peoples’ faces. Teachers who are dedicated to their sport/activity will stay the course, as they should, for their respective season.

Watching the news this evening it sure looks like the students out protesting don’t even know WHAT they’re protesting.

In Brampton the kids were protesting the withdrawl of extra-curriculars, while in Owen Sound and Bruce-Huron they were walking out of class supporting the teachers who can’t protest or walk out of class. A few hours later after school at our local school field hockey practice went on as usual.

“Not yet, but it may come to that.”

That would be your choice Wain.

We all know that boards have always had the flexibility to negotiate workloads for teachers by any number of ways that include, reducing workload by periods of instruction, credits for teachers who do extras, teachers freed up from other duties to attend to extra-curriculars.

Has that all changed under this government?

Because the greatest lie being told those students yesterday is that teachers didn’t have a choice in withdrawing co-instructional activities WHICH includes everything from meetings, to sports, to trips, to marking papers.

In the end you choose to affect students when you really didn’t have to. THAT is the message resounding clearly with the public these days.

What does it tell you that some students at our local school were afraid that if they didn’t protest they’d get in to trouble? From who Wain?

Below a couple of articles from teachers - it takes the cake, and they certainly are operating on their own best interests.

“Teachers at some GTA schools have cancelled charity fundraising clubs — no United Way bake sales or movie nights, no Terry Fox runs for cancer, no Free the Children drives for wells in Africa — to show their anger at Ontario’s new wage-freeze law.

The loss of student fundraising at a number of Peel Region elementary schools and at least one York Region high school is the latest casualty of the labour turmoil sweeping Ontario schools, as many teachers opt out of all after-school programs to protest the controversial new law that freezes teachers’ wages while circumventing their bargaining rights.”
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/education/article/1258164—fundraising-clubs-latest-casualty-of-teacher-law

“If extra-curriculars are so important for the development of the student, then why isn’t the government putting incentives into contracts for teachers to do after-school activities? It’s because we are doing it for free right now.

Ask all of the referees to ref for free for the good of the students and let’s see how many will volunteer their time.

I tell the kids all the time to take nothing for granted, but it appears the government and the public are doing exactly that with our education system. Teachers are in the trenches not parents. Parents only get the information (not the truth) that the government wants to give them.”
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters/article/1258052—teachers-get-blame-for-political-tactics

I would say, the teachers’ unions are reaping what they have sown. And have discovered, there is little support from parents and students alike.

How many kids me as parent can safe, only my own, but all of you behind the screen with big names, titles and authority what did you do to the kids except talking and pointing finger to each other, government elected by you, kids are misused by teachers, uneducated union at least history wise and what we see right now is not unexpected outcome, we all know the problems very well but divided on solutions, driven by our own human nature special interest and ego. You can attack me as much as you like, calling me names or any other things but do not forget I DID safe my own, there no better time for parents and communities to get involve as we need all of good teachers and educators to do what is right, The education act needs to purify and change; using elementary kids in protest should be criminal act. The absolute power given to boards without any accountability should be reviewed, the committees out of committees out of subcommittees should not be allowed anymore, the law makers have to get the message as well, the job description for teachers has to be cleared and stop using the word volunteer as political tool.  We sometimes cause more damage to our objective than our enemies .I know my bad speech is useless not because of my bad English, but rather because the right people are not doing the right thing on the right time.

Chuque,

“From who Wain?”  Good question - I’ve never heard of any students being penalized for protesting, or not as the case may be.

I’ve been through this the last time with Harris.  After the extra-curricular activities were withdrawn to protest the extra course added to the teacher’s workload, I was teaching an extra section of career studies.  The students in my class were incensed that the football season was over (BTW:  what is it about football?  They never seem to be worried about soccer or other sports, but I digress).  They yelled and screamed at me and the loss of their ‘rights’.  We talked it over and in the end we came through it a closer knit group.  Not one of those students were ‘penalized’ for taking their frustrations out on me - in fact, I used it as a great teaching point talking about how to deal with conflict in the workplace. Nearly the entire class received either a level 4 or level 3 in the course and I still see the students as one of the best classes I have ever taught.

Can’t imagine any teacher worth their salt taking umbrage at students voicing their heartfelt opinions.  Maybe in your neck of the woods the teachers are meaner, couldn’t say.  Have you spoken with your child’s teacher about this fear?

As an educator for over 35 years, serving as an administrator (secondary vice-principal and secondary principal) for 24 of those 35 years, I feel compelled to give you my perspective on this issue.
First of all, there has been no teacher hired in the Province of Ontario in over 50 years who was not asked in an interview for hire what he/she would do beyond the classroom to support the school culture.  I can assure you that there is not one teacher who has been hired during that time who said that he/she would not “volunteer” his/her time to provide the school community or the students that part of the educational system in Ontario that makes school enjoyable for most students.  If you wanted a job you agreed that as part of your employment you would “volunteer” in areas such as the arts, athletics, social activities, curriculum development, etc.  It has always bothered those of us for whom education was a vocation and not a job that the teacher unions would try to use this “volunteer” service, our personal service to our schools and our students, as a means to force a school board into a collective agreement without resorting to the loss of wages and pension that result from putting your money where your mouth is and going on strike.  Some of us even rebelled against our unions and were submitted to scorn and derision from our peers, our fellow teachers, because we continued with extra-curriculars rather than going on “work-to-rule”.  I will never forget my students coming to me after witnessing teachers picketing in front of our school during the nights of our musical production and asking me why they would do this to them.  The teacher picketers had taken the songs of our musical and changed the words to mock and insult what we were doing.  After the contract was signed, many teachers, now used to their “free” time during work-to-rule, never returned to their after school activities and the union never scolded them for doing so.
Back in 2000-2001, when this issue came to the fore during the Harris government’s expectation that secondary teachers teach 6.5 credits per year instead of the usual 6, I often wondered why he did not seize the opportunity to reduce the base salary of teachers and then allow them to top up by contracting to do extra-curriculars as is done in the US.  That way, those teachers who love that aspect of serving students would be properly compensated and it could never again be part of a work-to-rule as only a full strike would end that service.  It would also eliminate the unions using those teachers and the students who benefit from that other side of the education system as pawns in negotiations.  Perhaps it is time for Mr. McGuinty to consider this as a cost-saving measure using the argument that if teachers are now saying that they won’t do the full job, they should not get their full pay.  As we currently have an over-abundance of young teachers who cannot get a job and would love to not only teach, but also to teach through arts, sports, or other activities, one wonders if McGuinty could follow Ronald Reagan’s practice and fire those teachers who do not want to do the job and replace them with today’s youth who have not yet been brainwashed into thinking that teaching in Ontario is like punching a clock at a factory and is no longer a profession but just another well-paying job.

Medhat,

“...  we all know the problems very well but divided on solutions, driven by our own human nature special interest and ego.”

Never have I seen anyone on this site sum up the entire situation so clearly and concisely.  This is exactly what has been going on around here for years.  I admit to my own biases and viewpoints contributing to the problem.

We do have to be cognizant of the goal of improving the education system of our students.  However, don’t despair because of some of the seeming bickering and back and forth banter that goes on.  The Bible does say that, “... for by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory.” (Prov 26:6)  That does not mean that there will be harmony and agreement in the council.

To “Education is not a job…
Wonderful comment! You are right on the money. Such common sense seems rare these days, in any profession!

volunteering is a great idea.  I want to do that.  but there’s a catch, first you need to get a police security check.

so yesterday I drove to the TDSB, filled in the form (can’t submit it over the internet), and handed over a certified check to Toronto Police Services. 

then I found out that TPS is only turning these around in 10-12 weeks.

“Back in 2000-2001, when this issue came to the fore during the Harris government’s expectation that secondary teachers teach 6.5 credits per year instead of the usual 6, I often wondered why he did not seize the opportunity to reduce the base salary of teachers and then allow them to top up by contracting to do extra-curriculars as is done in the US. “

That was one of the options in the Report on the Preservation of Co-instructional activities. There were many options that boards, at any time could adopt.

At the time, there were three boards in Ontario which hired or assigned activity coordinators to help organize extra-curricular activities. Waterloo was one of these boards.

No wheels need reinventing. Simply dust of the flipping report and read it. Surely we know by now that the promises of the gov’t of the day and unions to implement the recommendations contained in the report were NOT kept.

Tom,

Although as a teacher I must go through the same thing - it was handled en-masse for us.  However, I ran into the same kind of issue trying to coach minor hockey.  I needed a separate police background check for them.  The local minor hockey association suggested which police forces were faster than others.

It may not help you since you have already paid to have Toronto Police do your check, but others may be in the same boat.  People should contact the OPP, or smaller local and regional forces to see how long it takes and go there.  Our local police (not that it helps you so far away) has a three week turn around - just as an example.

BTW:  I applaud your desire to volunteer.  I have coached with parent and community volunteers before and it always leads to a better experience for all concerned - especially the students.

First of all I take my hat with full respect and joy for Education is a Vocation Not a Job , very well said , as I thank you Mr. Wayne Scott for your nice words and the bible verse .
Second to Tom do not let the a police security check processing to hold you back, you will make a big different by helping out at your school or among your community and please listen to me when I tell you this story, I will not go deep in my son story as a big part of it on my page on P4E under my name, was asking so many question and only getting political statements. On day my son came back from school and said dad my friend in the classroom is very sad, asking him why, he said he does not like the way the teacher treat him and he said his Mom is very busy she cannot come and help him.
After that day I went through all the police check not only me but my wife as well, we decided to volunteer as school mentor with Big brother Big sister of Canada.
MS Nancy said, Perhaps the silent majority should stay silent. And my question is who the silent majority are???? Is it me ordinary person has to go through hell with education system? ,,,, No
Is it the single parent struggling for day to day?  No
Is it thousands of families’ working day and night to pay taxes and fees?  NO
Is it the middle class family who does not know the deference between PPM, SEAC and B11?  NO
And definitely not tens of thousands of immigrant families running away from whatever,
The silent majority is you Nancy and chuck and Steve and Wayne and the teacher and QSE and P4E and ministry of education and everyone has the knowledge and the power in education system   .
I am not insulting anyone in any way or form , I do apologize if I did it unintentionally , as I know I do not belong to your community or culture I was educated in deferent way, but I share with you the deep concern about education and special need kids in particular .
I do not remember who said ….The history of the world is the world’s court of justice….

good advice wayne, but doesn’t work.

i called durham this morning, they were apologetic but can’t process me unless i live there.

but they were super-helpful, they pointed me at a private firm called Background Detectives that does certified vulnerable sector checks (including the police chief stamp on the form).  just a bit more expensive, which is fine by me.

so i asked TSDB whether they would accept this, and they wrote back ‘no’.  they only accept the form from the police service where I live. 

so it’s 10-12 weeks if I’m as clean as a whistle, and maybe longer if I have a common name and need fingerprints to confirm my identity.

Medhat,

Thanks, and no insult taken - I understand your viewpoint.

I suppose one way to respond would be to say that I am only silent by law.  Since Mr. Harris changed the rules and has forbidden teachers to politicize the classroom, the boards have to gone one step further and silenced all expressions of protest.  After being repeatedly threatened with dismissal for voicing my opposition to things like the ‘no zero’ policy, I learned to shut up.  I have a family to support and cannot afford to push any further.

Finally, Medhat, you ARE part of our community - simply by being concerned and caring about our children.  It doesn’t matter where you come from, now you are here.  The only barriers you face are the barriers you put in front of yourself.  As immigrants, my parents did the same thing - they assumed they had no part or say in a culture they did not know nor understand.  I basically had to fend for myself for everything in the community - school, sports, cadets, you name it.  My parents were always supportive - but from a distance, they never got involved.  Please don’t make the same mistake.

Thanks great teacher

Medhat, you’re not seriously buying this are you? You do recognize the spin in what Wain’s writing right?

“I suppose one way to respond would be to say that I am only silent by law.  Since Mr. Harris changed the rules and has forbidden teachers to politicize the classroom, the boards have to gone one step further and silenced all expressions of protest.”

nonsense. If you choose not to respond it is your own individual choice Mr. Scott NG because teachers were never silenced by law in Ontario. It may have been in suggestion but it’s not a law that the unions would have abided by anyway….and they don’t. Teachers politicize classrooms all the time and no one’s any the wiser.

Parents, students and the public at large are also wise to the fact on how the unions and gagged teachers are using them, claiming that they can’t protest.

“The silent majority is you Nancy and chuck and Steve and Wayne and the teacher and QSE and P4E and ministry of education and everyone has the knowledge and the power in education system.”

Silent by choice is more like it Medhat. There’s a culture of fear that is nurtured by a system that claims not to bully those who speak out whether it be teachers, parents, students.

I worry that you think SQE and P4E are part of a silent majority, when they’ve been at it for years. They’re not silent on their part, the silence is actually from those with deaf ears who are hellbent to pitbull status to defend status quo not matter what.

Agree Chuck - Just to add, how silent the teachers are regarding the realities of the students. When teachers do make their voices objecting to policies, than the stakeholders within, amassed, collectively remaining silent or defending the status-quo.

It is so easy to fire a teacher, such as the Alberta teacher who objected to the no-zero policies, The public education system calls it insubordination, which is laughable, but so very sad. Sad, because it is what happens when teachers speak out about education policies of the kind that hurts the students and their futures.

Not so easy, when teachers follows the scripts of the stakeholders, pretending to be blind, mute and deaf to the realities of the students.

By the way, the physics teacher who had been fired, is now working in a private school, in Edmonton, .

Nice to see how this discussion turning into debate unintentionally or deliberately, last month there was discussion with p4e started by how we can save money in the education system, someone came up with the idea by canceling EQAO test then I did ask few questions like, what is the total coast for EQAO operation? And what is the other alternative should we have in place to measure student achievement, all of the sudden the discussion became personal attack on me and was accused with something funny.
I left the discussion simply because there is no use to argue with hypocrite and ignorant, how could those who claim they are educator or education defenders cannot be respectful through normal discussion. MR Wayne Scott it takes a lot of self-respect and honest heart for what you have said, not many can fight alone as we all know what kind of harassment and bulling in the education system, it was not the right time to fight, As MR Chuck said There’s a culture of fear that is nurtured by a system that claims not to bully those who speak out whether it be teachers, parents, students), that was ongoing generation after generation and large numbers are teachers?. Maybe none of you is the silent majority but very clear you did not have any impact either. Unions are corrupted for so long by its own members and government. But what OECTA did was unusual don’t we agree? What Dalton did by Bill 115 is unusual because the public are unhappy and finally the deaf ears are listening; Dr David Suzuki was wondering is this could be the Canadian uprising? 
About a year ago I went downtown Toronto to attend my first and last webinar for p4e regarding Don Drummond report was hopping they will pay attention to chapter 6 regarding the special need kids funding in particular. I did ask MS Annie Kidder how could the education system survive when it is budged is more than 90 % salary and benefit? She said it will always be that way, sorry she was wrong or maybe she is bad in math. I do respect p4e for a lot of their work but do not like their political stand. As I do not like QSE for negativity approach without giving real solutions? You do not have to call me names now I will leave soon LOL.( no I am not crazy ) I just know history .Ministry of health statistic said we have 6.2 million Canadian has mental issues almost 20 % of total population I think the education has big factor in it ?
We have created the most rotten at the core education structure , as we all know how the system work ,family business, relatives , unions , ethnic groups, code of conduct , beneficiaries , organize mafia and so on , so how all of this will change ? By fixing our education system, by correcting our teachers morals and principals, by getting together all of you, is it hard to make a clear plane for what are you looking for in regards the changes in the education system?
So here is a proposal for SQE, P4E and all other respectful educators and administrators and advocates for kids, writ a submission with what you think it should be in our education system regarding your mutual concerns and submit it to the ministry of education and publish it to the public, if you cannot do simple thing like that? None of you really care about the education or our kids (my own opinion), I did that with the last ministry of education as we can see big change in the school around our community, now is the right time for all of you behind the screen to act positively away from your selfishness and ego.
The 16 years Old Catholic student Lian Iskander in months was behind the successful anti bullying law and now she can call her club GSA not Rainbow ( no need for religious debate ) but the coast with too high were 9 and 11 years old boys has committed suicide?   
I have to say congratulation to Quebec students were they celebrating following months of historic protest, as the new Quebec government cancelled proposed tuition fee hikes on their first day in power. This generation will not be the silent majority.
MR Chuck I am not buying or selling anything, when it comes to special need kids we have the most discrimination system in place by the stupid independence of the 72 boards, I am telling my point of view as a father after hell with the education system and its barbarians, I did win the battle and the war for my own kids and helped others so I did my part and feel content.
It’s totally up to your conciseness to act or ignore
So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand .Isaiah 41:10.

the posts that deal with current events issues seem to get the best and most responses.

“. Maybe none of you is the silent majority but very clear you did not have any impact either.”

How do you know this Medhat Wanes, based only on what you read here, and over at P4E? That’s just the kind of statement the silent majority remains silent on.

” But what OECTA did was unusual don’t we agree”

No we don’t agree.

“Dr David Suzuki was wondering is this could be the Canadian uprising?” 

Funniest thing I’ve read in months.

” I did ask MS Annie Kidder how could the education system survive when it is budged is more than 90 % salary and benefit? She said it will always be that way, sorry she was wrong or maybe she is bad in math. I do respect p4e for a lot of their work but do not like their political stand.”

What stand is that Medhat Wanes?

” As I do not like QSE for negativity approach without giving real solutions?”

I don’t understand your questions. It would be respectful if you were to get the name straight. It’s SQE.Where you may see a negative approach, some may see an approach that you don’t agree with. 

As with all things choice you choose to participate here and am pretty sure you can leave at will too.

School choice is about as real a solution as one can get.

“So here is a proposal for SQE, P4E and all other respectful educators and administrators and advocates for kids, writ a submission with what you think it should be in our education system regarding your mutual concerns and submit it to the ministry of education and publish it to the public, if you cannot do simple thing like that?”

What makes you think that in over their years of existence that they haven’t done this already?

“None of you really care about the education or our kids (my own opinion), I did that with the last ministry of education as we can see big change in the school around our community, now is the right time for all of you behind the screen to act positively away from your selfishness and ego.”

I think I understand why the folks at P4E held you to account. Speaking of name calling and the same sweeping generalization that you say you want to rid the system of, that comment caps your post off pretty well.

“I have to say congratulation to Quebec students were they celebrating following months of historic protest, as the new Quebec government cancelled proposed tuition fee hikes on their first day in power. This generation will not be the silent majority.”

Then I guess you’ll be moving to Quebec?

“MR Chuck I am not buying or selling anything, “

“It’s totally up to your conciseness to act or ignore
So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand .Isaiah 41:10.”

Oh, you’re selling something, and I’m very sorry for what allegedly the system did to your special needs kids but, that is neither the fault of those here a SFT or those who you left at P4E.

Medhats Wanes - P4E is simply the echo chamber in Ontario, and sometimes for the rest of Canada.

Have you ever wonder why P4E does not have a robust forum, of many diverse viewpoints? 

P4E has not and will never have the best interests of the students, and especially for the students who have some type of disability. It is claimed by you, that SQE participants don’t care, but they do with a lot of passion and vigor, in the realities of the present.

P4E is only interested in providing the talking points of the public education system and its stakeholders. I feel for you, as you have described in your last post, “........ last month there was discussion with p4e started by how we can save money in the education system, someone came up with the idea by canceling EQAO test then I did ask few questions like, what is the total coast for EQAO operation? And what is the other alternative should we have in place to measure student achievement, all of the sudden the discussion became personal attack on me and was accused with something funny.”

Personal attacks is part of the regular operations, over at P4E. Anything contrary to the thoughts, ideas or contradictions is attacked. Many of a time, I felt like interceding on the behalf of a parent who has been going through hell, just to get help for their child. Now, in the last two years, judging form the chat forums, the parents don’t even bother. Why put the time and effort pouring out your heart, when your person and in the end, your dignity is attack.

P4E, is silent on a lot of issues. Silent on the closure of the national office of the Learning Disability society. What is even more glaring, and big time silence is the Moore case at the Supreme Court of Canada, and where a ruling has not been issue by the Supreme Court of Canada Justices. Hopefully, just around the corner.

Silence, even though the Ontario education heavy weights, had standing to argue against the students with learning disabilities. In their eyes, to give them the ability to read, write and in some cases, numeracy, will cost too much. But here is the link, and over 3 hours of video of the court hearings. Read and watch at your pleasure, and you will see discrimination being played out in front of your eyes. And come to an understanding, the public education system, as it stands today - don’t give a rat’s a$$ about children’s education. Neither does P4E for that matter, but they only exist at the pleasure of the teachers’ unions and the ministry of education.

http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca/case-dossier/cms-sgd/dock-regi-eng.aspx?cas=34041

Not one word, about the Moore case on the P4E site, and no doubt if it was discussed, the P4E gang will be falling all over themselves not to offend the unions and the ministry of education.

As for SQE, solid advice for parents whose children are struggling in learning. I only wish I found SQE earlier than I did. It would have saved me a lot of heart ache. SQE is well disliked by P4E, for good reasons. SQE is not afraid to tackled any education issue, concerning the public education system. Fault-lines running across the span of the education system, and no one inside is being held accountable to the final results of students, after 12 years of education.

Medhats states - “Ministry of health statistic said we have 6.2 million Canadian has mental issues almost 20 % of total population I think the education has big factor in it ? “

Well over 11 million adults with low literacy and numeracy skills. The majority are Canadians born in Canada. The final outcomes for students after 12 years of schooling, is not pretty. Ugly stats, and yet P4E and the other stakeholders within the public education system dismisses it, and blames everything on the parents and the other SES factors. But never the curriculum, instruction and the education policies of the public education system.

There is a few more web sites, but first Medhats I want you to review the Moore case, because reading both sides in the factums and the webcasts, will show you where the public education system stands. And its not in the best interest of our children and their education.

here is my answear to you Sir ,
] Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers,
Good Bye

Medhat,

I’m sorry I missed the continuation of this thread - and even sorrier to see you go.  Your insight and balanced approach will be sorely missed.

Thanks for your contributions to the topics at hand.

Wayne

a good column from the last guy Annie Kidder and the unions accused of creating a crisis in education…..before him is was Bob Rae & Dave Cooke

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/09/21/make-a-new-plan-sam

A good column by the last guy Annie Kidder and the teacher unions accused of creating a crisis in education. Before that it was Bob Rae and Dave Cooke.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/09/21/make-a-new-plan-sam

“Your insight and balanced approach will be sorely missed.”

insight based on experience, and balanced by a new definition of “balanced” that defies anything I was ever taught. Then I must have missed it. Could you point the balanced points out in Medhat’s points Wayne?