While I totally agree that learning the basic skills of reading and arithmetic early and well is the cornerstone of anyone’s education I take exception with the implied notion that private schools in general do an excellent job at that.

Most private schools in Toronto tend to apply the same inefficient progressive approaches as the public schools do (such as whole language, discovery math). Most of them let their students progress at their own pace as opposed to holding all the students up to the same expectations.

It’s very hard to find out how and what they teach because some use the same or similar(progressive) textbooks as the public system. If you raise this issue they tell you that actually the textbooks are just guideposts that each teacher has his own materials that he will use for the bulk of the teaching.?!

The difference is usually but not always better organized and more motivated teachers, the smaller class sizes - even poor methods with more time spent on them tend to yield slightly but not significantly better results - and the parents who continue in some cases not only to teach their children at home but also to send them to Kumon or other tutoring at the same time the child is attending a private school.

What they tend to do better is a more disciplined environment, but the learning I’m not impressed with for most of them.

When it comes to private schools it really is buyer’s beware.
There are a few good private schools out there but you need to go and scout them. Go in - if you can unexpectedly so you don’t get the dog and pony show but the reality - and ask to see teaching materials, homework samples, test samples ask to attend a class just by quietly sitting in a corner. 
Ask them what would be the ideal student for their school. If the answer is such that they can try to be everything for everybody, then run!.

Some of them are good only because what a few certain teachers actually do in the classroom which may not necessarily be what’s advertised by the school.

My guess is that will be fewer good schools in general as the supply of older teachers, who at least have a solid, non-progressive education themselves dwindles down.
The biggest issue is that younger teachers, if they have been taught in the progressive public system here, first of all do not have good basics themselves - problems with spelling and English grammar, problems with fractions and powers - and on top of that have a totally fuzzy and unworkable mindset about what teaching is.
They do not understand that to teach somebody well you need to break it down in clear chunks, in a logical order and you need to practice. They do not feel responsible for the results. As long as they “immerse” the students in interesting materials they expect the students - even very young ones - to figure it out by themselves.
The textbooks which are fuzzy themselves just add to the confusion.

POBOD

here are no real math problems compared to other nations we are #6 in math out of 65 and higher than many Asian nations.

Want higher scores? Easily done at $0.00 cost. Reorganize elementary schools to have itinerant math teachers from grade 1.

The principle - the father stated: “.“I think there are great, great schools in the public system, but what I did see after two years was … there was a disconnect between the child I knew when he entered school as a five-year-old and what was being reported back to me,” Mr. Peters says.”

I think many parents in the public education system can attest to the above statement. For my children, it was like night and day, of what was being reported by the school and what I knew about my children. There is a disconnection that occurs in public school based on what I think is the tendency for schools to ignore external factors that does not fit in with the general practices and policies of the schools. Mr. Peters, stated his was son was interested in nature: “The Priory teachers incorporate Foster’s love of nature and animals into his studies, something that has made him “super-engaged,” Mr. Peters says. Partly based on Foster’s experience, Mr. Peters enrolled his daughter at The Priory right from the get-go, and she’s now in Grade 1.”

Its at this junction, that the public education system does a very poor job at incorporating individual student interests to their learning. The secondary problem, is ignoring what parents and outside professionals are saying about the children. For example, my youngest had advanced knowledge in science and nature, that probably put her at the grade 3 level, and yet in grade 1, it was dismissed by the educators because it was not the same science knowledge as outlined in the curriculum. It was also dismissed using her high interest in science in her reading books assigned to her.

Perhaps, the private schools do a much better job as Mr. Peters have stated in making the connections, but as Europe has stated, the curriculum is still more or less the same in the private and public schools. That said, isn’t it all about the disconnection that Mr. Peters spoke about,  in the curriculum, the teaching methods, the use of calculators, and the textbooks? 

Some of the reasons: “Math support teacher Neil Dempsey (Right idea on math, wrong way to get there, Free Press, June 21) says memorization of math facts and bringing back standard algorithms (vertical addition with a carry; vertical subtraction with a borrow; vertical multiplication and long division) are a step in the wrong direction.”
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/math-du-jour-theories-simply-dont-add-up-212875171.html?device=mobile

“If you ask why that’s not happening, it’s because very early in school many kids get the idea that they’re not in the smart group, especially in math.”  http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/a-better-way-to-teach-math/?_r=0

“Why are we bad at math?
EQAO test scores highlight growing problem as less students fail to meet provincial standards in math”
http://www.mykawartha.com/news-story/4116190-why-are-we-bad-at-math-/

The public educator stakeholders also like to ignore the cognitive and learning sciences - Why is math so hard for so many?- http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/03/27/why-is-math-so-hard-for-so-many/

Over at P4E, they are not helping - “So far, no one seems to know the reasons for the math decline. The curriculum has not changed and teaching methods are, for the most part, relatively stable, so neither of those things appear to be factors in the decline.”
http://www.peopleforeducation.ca/pfe-news/eqao-results-show-improvement-in-reading-and-writing-decline-in-math/?utm_source=E-Newsletter&utm_campaign=781140fc0d-News_sept_26_&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_422aeb3dbd-781140fc0d-18776265

The discussion of the curriculum, the teaching methods, the use of calculators, and the textbooks is a taboo subject for the public to be in on. Ouch, when reading the comments from parents talking all about the lousy curriculum, teaching methods, the use of calculators and the textbooks. A huge disconnection between the public and the public education system who don’t think there is any problems with the curriculum, textbooks and instructional methods.

Otherwise, as some readers have pointed out, and in this comment, “I’m not sure what I’m more concerned about, the fact that kids are performing poorly in EQAO testing or that the answers to the EQAO questions are wrong. A square based prism has 5 vertices, not 4.”
http://www.mykawartha.com/news-story/4116190-why-are-we-bad-at-math-/

Perhaps parents should be the one proof reading the EQAO math questions….......just a thought…

POSTED ON BEHALF OF L. MURRAY:
“There are no real math problems compared to other nations we are #6 in math out of 65 and higher than many Asian nations.

Want higher scores? Easily done at $0.00 cost. Reorganize elementary schools to have itinerant math teachers from grade 1.”


The solution that I’d expect to read from this fellow, who purports to abhor measurement of skills, except when it fits his agenda.
Typical also in the “don’t worry, be happy” mantra that almost sounds like the making of excuses for bad teaching, methods, and curricula.
#6 for what we spend on education, teacher training and remediation isn’t good enough for most post-secondaries or employers.
Hey, but keeping your head in the sand, or pretending to look the other way isn’t something this parent wishes on our province’s students, but it’s what we’ve become accustom to.

How about this Doug?

How about ETFO start thinking about their priorities in educating our kids in basic skills rather than dabbling in political correctness and absurdity of messing with Mother’s Day and Father’s Day.
More evidence of a union still out of touch.

Spoke to Guidance head of our school as to why Math enrollment tends to fall greatly after Gr. 11, when it ceases to become a mandatory credit as a requirement to graduate high school in Ontario. The prime reason seems that kids do not see the practicality of its use in everyday and occupational life. In other words, when would the normal populace use Pythagoream’s theorem, Avogadros number, trigonomic identies, etc? These are,admittedly,very onerous but applied theories within the subject area. Unless one has the aptitude for understanding such principles (or one needs an upper level Math for some post-secondary entrance requirements), kids will take something else,either for an easier credit or to bolster their Grade 12 marks. Remember, Grade 12 these days is a big deal. It is all about boosting your average to be merely considered for post secondary selection.

Steve - the public schools are doing a great disservice to all students, and more so for the students who are entering into the trades.

A Welder - “Is math important in the welding industry?
Math key to understanding the basics of welding. Basic math and trigonometry are important when it comes to making correct design and dimension measurements. Geometry is also a very important subject when it comes to being a good welder. Understanding how to measure closed and open angles and calculate distances without the use of a calculator is key to success in this career.”

Or this one: General Construction worker: Yes, a strong background in basic math and linear measurements
is very important as well as the ability to use geometry to solve problems is important in the building trades. Workers must be able to do simple math and measurement calculations in their head without the assistance of a calculator. Workers must also learn how to estimate on a regular basis.”

Or this one: Diesel Mechanic: “Math and science are key competencies that a diesel mechanic
must have in today’s workplace. The basic understanding of the principles of physics is necessary in order to understand how to problem solve in the diesel trade. Basic math,technical math, and geometry are also subjects that must be mastered before one can fully understand the principles of diesel mechanics. Measurements, ratios, fractions, and metric to American standard conversions are common calculations that need to be made everyday in the workplace.”

“Want to be a welder? Better not skimp on the geometry and trig. What about interior design? You’ll need higher math skills to calculate the arc for that countertop. Simply put: math is everywhere…”
http://www.ourfactsyourfuture.org/admin/uploadedPublications/1916_Who_Needs_Math_Web.pdf

Want to become a general machinist?  A sample course at the college level - “MATH-5009 - A Level III course for the precision machining program. Topics include solving trade related problems involving oblique triangles, law of sines, cosines and cotangents.”
http://www.fanshawec.ca/continuing-education/apprentice-technology-and-trades/industrial-craftsperson-general-machinist

Why is the NA public education determined to be the executioner for North America’s skilled trades workers?
The Death Of Shop Class And America’s Skilled Workforce - http://www.forbes.com/sites/tarabrown/2012/05/30/the-death-of-shop-class-and-americas-high-skilled-workforce/

Of course the kids don’t see the practicality of math in everyday and occupational life in senior high school. Not after years of being told one doesn’t need to master long division, fractions, squared roots, prime numbers because of the calculator. The kids are dropping out of math and math related courses such as physics at the high school level because they have realized that they don’t have the ability and skills. No kid worth their salt would admit to the lack of math skills, and certainly not when the public education system offers an easier out, by training them to see mathematics as an difficult skill to acquire.

All one has to do, is to review the lousy math curriculum and instruction that turns the basic arithmetic concepts from easy to grasp to hard to grasp. The Pythagoream’s theorem very important in the schematics of the real world and everyday life, part of geometry but not at all important in the K to 12 math curriculum. The School of Mathematics and Statistics at Carleton University will offer a non-credit enrichment course for students in grade 7-8, beginning in September 2013. According to them, geometry - “However, this part of mathematics is practically nonexistent as a subject in the curriculum of Canadian schools.” http://www5.carleton.ca/math/high-school-courses/

Interesting, how the concepts of parallelism, Pythagorean Theorem, the Circle, Quadrilaterals and Areas are crucial mathematics knowledge to acquired to truly understand the knowledge of high school physics or trig or calculus. Unfortunately, geometry has been dropped from the math curriculum, and is now considered enrichment. Is there any wonder why kids are not flocking to senior high school math classes, when they are missing crucial math knowledge?

Who needs Math?  Everyone….....but not according to the experts in the public education system.

FROM L. MURRAY:

Nancy wrote “Who needs math? Everyone…...............”

I’m going to differ with you on that comment Nancy.  I dropped math mid way through Grade 12.  To this day I can say that I’ve never needed the streams of secondary math that were, at the time mandatory.

There is a huge difference between the streamed math curricula offered in secondary and having a good foundation of basic arithmetic, WHICH, is what I believe students are losing out on in this province.

Thanks to a solid foundation of those basic arithmetic skills honed throughout elementary school, neither post-secondary of a landing jobs was ever a problem.

As for the “elephant in the room”, the one very large elephant that no one like to talk about but which exits are those who support mediocre results, failing methods and teachers in the elementary panel who, were themselves a product of fuzzy math because academic improvement is politicized…..being some sort of a right-wing conspiracy. We’ve seen some folks here pull that. 

The truth is that until the politicizing of issues like this needs to be exposed and challenged because until then, the students lose.

While we might not all need calculus or algebra, we all need basic math skills for everyday life.  It’s the lack of those fluent, automatic arithmetic skills that is the problem.

I totally agree with your comments.  I am still shocked when I am asked to help 15 and 16 year olds with their
<a hef=“http://www.mathsexpert.com”> mathematical studies in the UK </a> to discover they they rarely recall what 7 times 6 is or how to divide 18 by 3.  It was even more shocking when a parent said confidently “Even I know that, 7 times 6 is 48!”

Maths to me is all about creating solid layers of learning - a little like stacking playing cards.  The bottom layers have got to be firmly in place to build the next layer up.  So fractions can only be mastered when multiplication has been mastered.