Compared to the U.S. the choice voice just doesn’t have the numbers, the money or the government support in some provinces in Canada. They’ve also been organizing the choice movement for longer than we have here.

Also, the choice message in Ontario is not as strong as it could be to take advantage of a really great window of opportunity right now re: comparing of systems…..thanks in large part to the teacher unions hellbent of withdrawing services and using students as pawns. A lesson poorly learned for sure, but an opportunity for the choice voice to increase the message that could put parents in the power seat.

Parents in this country have what they need to become power brokers in education IF they recognized it and learned how to use that power wisely.

The push-back by students, parents and even some teachers in this latest dust-up between the teacher unions and Ontario gov’t IS a sign to me that the unions are not winning this won. Not even close.

Ms. Dare,

The map may be ‘amazing’, but it is also very revealing about the true effect of ‘parent power’ (based on charter schools, and so on).  Readers will need to compare the results on this map with actual student achievement by state: (http://www.alec.org/publications/report-card-on-american-education/)

State           PPI           Performance

Indiana           #1                 #17
Florida           #2                 #12
Ohio             #3                 #21
Arizona           #4                 #36
DC               #5               #24

Massachusetts   #23               #1

It says a lot when the top 5 states in ‘Parent Power’ rank at best twelfth and at worst 36th in actual student achievement.  Furthermore, it doesn’t look too good when the best state in student achievement gets ranked 23rd in ‘Parent Power’. That is, unless your purpose in presenting this material was to show that ‘Parent Power’ (and by extension - choice, charter schools, yadda, yadda, yadda) have at best no effect on student achievement, and at worst a negative effect.

It’s too easy for people to be fooled by glitzy computer graphics—- it’s also a sure sign that they are hiding something.  Back in the 80’s, we used to say, “If you can’t dazzle them with diamonds, then baffle them with bull#$@&”.

What is sad is that what is often missed is that parental involvement in their children’s education has a significant positive impact on test scores and achievement.  Therefore, I encourage all of you to exercise your real ‘parent power’ and talk to your children about the importance of doing well in school, help them with their homework and make sure that school is more important than hockey and hanging out with their friends and playing video games.

Sorry Ms. Dare,

I just noticed that my comments should have been directed at Doretta.

Wayne, you amaze me at times:  you’re insinuating that the state-run monopolies that don’t do much more than babysit (and badly at that) know better than parents.  So you throw out statistics, while ignoring variables which would/could affect the test scores you’ve cited in order to convince the readers of how ineffectual parent choice is.  You’re fighting hard for the status quo.  What about the children, Wayne, and where’s the social justice that taxpayers have no choice but support a bad system here in Ontario with no alternatives if they’re at a certain income level and/or geographic location so they can’t send their children to any schools other than union-run monopolies that are failing their children?

” ?If you can?t dazzle them with diamonds, then baffle them with bull#$@&?.”

We know all about the bull#$@&.” Wain. We’re largely products of the public education system.

That “bull#$@&.” continues unabated.

” I encourage all of you to exercise your real ?parent power? and talk to your children about the importance of doing well in school, help them with their homework and make sure that school is more important than hockey and hanging out with their friends and playing video games.”

Better yet. Encourage each and every parent to do THEIR homework and find out what variety of educational choices are available to them in their district and make an educated decision based on findings. NEVER let an educator, or anyone else who claims to know what’s best for your child, because that’s just arrogant.

By the same argument in Canada, Alberta with the most school choice, has the highest acheivement.

And yes, I think parents should get involved by doing all those good things you mention too.  Problem is, many of us did do all the right things and the teaching methods (fads) of whole language, fuzzy math, contructivism, discovery learning etc. in the early grades did more harm than all of our involvement could undo.

The ability to make choices is very empowering.  States that have choice (eventually) cause the regular public schools to improve.  A rising tide raises all boats.

Your hopes, dreams, biases and platitudes do not trump ‘statistics’  in this case, aka: facts.  It would be best to base your opinions on real research - that is what Chuck demanded of me, I expect the same of you.—- or does the double standard continue? 

Funny, you wonder why your ‘facts’ are never reported on the press (Bev); or why another blogger would brand the opinions on this site typical BS (Doretta) or why you are not invited education forums (Ms. Dare).  I think I have your answer.

Despite the fact that Alberta caps the number of charter schools, they’re still doing better than any other province in Canada. 
Many parents work very hard to get a good education for their children, but I agree that the bad teaching methods do more harm than good.  It galls me to hear any educrat ballyhoo about what parents should be doing for their children in order for them to do better in school when they know full well that the system is spending huge amounts of taxpayers’ money, but not delivering anything close to a good education to our children.

Wayne,

/index.php/blog/read/why-we-what-we-do-ii-why-our-critics-fight-us-so-hard/

Wayne, you appear to want nothing more than to maintain the status quo.  Unfortunately, that is your purpose—end of story.

Bev, et al,

What I want is what I have always said:  To change the system, not change systems.

Doretta,

The only myths I see perpetuated are the ones surrounding the efficacy of charter schools. In 2010 (the date of your ‘myths’ article), you ought to have been aware of the Credo Study by Stanford University produced in 2009.  Here is a portion of their executive summary:  “...This report presents a longitudinal student?level analysis of charter school impacts on more than 70 percent of the students in charter schools in the United States.? ? ? ? The scope of the study makes it the first national assessment of charter school impacts.???
Charter schools are permitted to select their focus, environment and operations and wide diversity exists across the sector.? ? This study provides an overview that aggregates charter schools in different ways to examine different facets of their impact on student academic growth.???
The group portrait shows wide variation in performance.??The study reveals that a decent fraction of charter schools, 17 percent, provide superior education opportunities for their students.???Nearly half of the charter schools nationwide have results that are no different from the local public school options and over a third, 37 percent, deliver learning results that are significantly
worse than their student would have realized had they remained in traditional public schools.??...”

(Study can be found here:  http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf)

So, a major study of 70% of charter school students finds that 1 in 2 charter schools do the same as public; almost 2 in 5 do WORSE and less than 1 in 5 do better.  Sorry, this is a panacea for ‘Quality’ Education?  Hardly. 

Labeling critics does nothing to advance your cause - that’s the easy part.

“Funny, you wonder why your ?facts? are never reported on the press (Bev); or why another blogger would brand the opinions on this site typical BS (Doretta) or why you are not invited education forums (Ms. Dare).  I think I have your answer.”

Wow! For someone with all of the “facts” on his side you sure are defensive.

SQE’s facts are reported in the press. So, you’d be wrong there.

“BS” on other sites? Really Wain, which ones and could you provide proof?

“not invited education forums” You appear to be an expert on SQE’s history. Ante up the proof of what I can only describe as rather, um, high school.

At least Doretta and Malkin use there real names.

Wayne, you came out of the closet ages ago:  if you were truly interested in the children’s welfare, you’d be eager for any change; not a specific one.  I suspect that you don’t like charter schools because it may change your comfortable lifestyle—perhaps having to work longer hours, and more days; perhaps having students calling you at home when they have a math problem; less pay; shaved benefits.  Who knows what charter schools would eventually bring about besides a better chance for children?  Of course I could be wrong about your reason to object to any whiff charter schools in the air for Ontario, but you sure come across that way.

School choice goes beyond charter schools, which is only one form of choice.  Vouchers for private schools are an option as well, hardly a poor performing one in most cases.

Choice can be charters, vouchers, education tax credits, education savings plans, alternative public schools, virtual schooling, open boundaries, etc. It can be partial funding to full funding. It can be universal or income contingent.  There are many permutations and combinations.  The U.S. map shows what is available to parents. 

Giving less affluent families, especially, a chance at better education IS giving them power and taking it away from the unions and education bureaucracy—and THAT scares the status quo.

For a look at what’s available in Canada, here’s a brief (very) look at the situation province by province. /parents/canada-choices.html

Chuck,

As I said, personal attacks are the easy way out - try refuting the actual topic under debate - do ‘parental power’ options help or hurt quality education?

The research I have presented shows that choice options either do nothing, or significantly decrease student achievement.  I am assuming since no one can find any research to refute those facts, you cannot.

When Doug was here, you used to blame him for side-tracking the discussion.  Since he is gone, and you love to nitpick at side issues, I would have to conclude that it wasn’t Doug derailing the debate.  Please try to stay on topic.

Bev,

Really, come on now.  If I were truly for change, I’d be for ANY change?  You honestly don’t buy that yourself do you?  Any change has the potential to help or hurt.  Neither you nor I would be for change that would hurt children.

Doretta,

With all due respect, a listing of the school options by province does not indicate whether they help or hurt - and is therefore non-responsive to the debate.  I would think that SQE, too, would support options that help, not hurt.

School choice in my region and Wain’s includes

public
Catholic
home-schooling
virtual schooling
private schooling - more and more are sprouting up every year. With so many small publicly owned schools closing there will be more alternative schools too….boards are almost clearing them out at firesale prices.

Perhaps we CAN start our own map? Not out of the question IMO

Re: charter schools. It’s only a matter of time in Ontario.

I mean we now have publicly funded schools in Toronto, Peel, London and likely more allowing for religious accommodation in their schools. Just last week we heard of the London Catholic board facilitating students their own prayer room. The TDSB allows this also, as does Peel.  Just as John Tory touted remember?

What also scares the status-quo is parents being educated and informed as to what their choices are….because when parents get organized and talking together we must be a threat, otherwise the status-quo would not lash out so furiously at the mere thought.

“Therefore, I encourage all of you to exercise your real ?parent power? and talk to your children about the importance of doing well in school, help them with their homework and make sure that school is more important than hockey and hanging out with their friends and playing video games.”

Quite the statement Wayne, but all so typical of an education system that wants to disempower, parents, students and the communities with their own form of babblegaff to masked the negative outcomes of students far off in the future. Disempowerment, by not providing quality, correct and factual knowledge and information. Many of a parent have follow the prescribed ‘parental involvement’ that is preach non-stop, to their regret. One just has to look at the data streams of the outcomes of students, or the latest anecdotal evidence that came my way a few days ago. It came via through my child’s boyfriend who is attending college, in one of the trades. Only three passed the math assessment, out of a class of 60, and ninety-five percent did not make the grade in what amounts to advance arithmetic skills and algebra. Being repeated across the country, but who cares eh Wayne; as long as parents are fooled long enough, with the dodgy education policies of a public education system, that refuses to acknowledge the slamming of students’ future
doors,  sealed and nailed that begins in the primary grades.

Wayne afraid to look within the public education system?  I would be too, because the public education system and students outcomes are very ugly to look at, and more so after 12 years of schooling.

Anything is better than a public education system that delivers education in the windows of the SES variables, using education pedagogies rift with ideologies, and not a whole lot of substance, plus have the gall to lecture parents and students on their many deficits, without ever providing the quality correct and factual information/knowledge needed to make correct decisions on what is best for their children..

I wonder how hard it is to look in the eyes of parents, at the high school level, sprouting edubabble that their kids don’t have what it takes skirting around the big elephants in the rooms - the students have never been taught.

By the way Wayne, effective parental involvement empowers parents to advocate for their children, to get the best possible education for their children. It can’t be done, when the information and knowledge is suspect, faulty and riddled with ideologies within the public education structure, that works for the best interests of the adults working within, at the expense of the students and their futures.

I had no choice to get involve, when an education system tossed my child into the trash heap, because it would cost too much, plus all the other excuses on the SES spectrum. After 12 years of fighting a public education system, I know a status-quo person when I see them. Wayne, your just one of the many, and I take it you must agree with a public education system that fought to defend the status-quo concerning the Moore case.

Just before the Supreme Court of Canada hearing on March 22, 2012 - a news article - “There?s a freight train heading for BC?s education system ? and it?s not being driven by government or teachers.”
http://www.policynote.ca/christy-clark-george-abbott-meet-jeffrey-moore/

Rest assure Wayne, choice be coming down whether the public education system likes or not. The Moore case, the Supreme Court Justices have not made its ruling, but this freight train is going full speed ahead, crashing into the major stakeholders within a public education system, that is always willing not to provide an proper quality education for these children.

And guess what, and no doubt every province has follow suit is this little item in the comment section.- “Isn?t it convenient that Bill 22 passed a week before this case started? And what is that last clause of Bill 22 all about-clearing the Ministry of all wrongdoing determined by any court decisions before or after the bill passed?”
http://www.policynote.ca/christy-clark-george-abbott-meet-jeffrey-moore/

Not going to stop the freight train, considering the next step, if the Supreme Court rules in favour of the Moores, class-action law suit across the country. This is on top of this little item above, that more or less that the public education system is no longer responsible for the outcomes of students. Choice, will be demanded by one and all parents, the additional fuel required to mature the movement of education choice, that anything is better than a public education system that delivers education with false promises and glib.

A system that tries to protect themselves from wrongdoing, is an education system that is no longer living up to their legal duties under the education school acts.  And they call themselves professionals….......

Wayne, you’re not for change.  Anyone with a B.Sc. in math can logically deduce that competition improves product—simple as that.  If you were a caring individual, you’d be championing school choice, but your ranting against school choice says it all.  I don’t know what teachers are afraid of.  Wouldn’t all of you be a lot happier if you saw students actually achieving, regardless of their economic background, rather than the large numbers of students who grossly lack numeracy skills?  Sorry, I just don’t understand you or any of the teachers who are fighting change which would benefit our children…  I suppose it’s unbelievable that you people who are around children every day choose to put yourselves and your salaries, benefits, light workloads ahead of the welfare of your charges.

Bev,

“Sorry, I just don?t understand you or any of the teachers who are fighting change which would benefit our children” That’s because you’re not reading/listening.

A simple example :“Anyone with a B.Sc. in math can logically deduce that competition improves product”.  Then show why the data disprove that overly simplistic theory.  Why is is that the states with the most choice have lower scores, and why states with limited choice rank highest in student achievement?

What is clearly evident here is that no one can produce any credible research to refute the data.  Therefore, all you have is conjecture, hope and wishful thinking - in short, you want the world to take the choice argument on FAITH.

“If you were a caring individual, you?d be championing school choice…” Really, why would I champion a course leading to disaster? 

“I don?t know what teachers are afraid of.”  Following the same mistakes made in the US.  Speaking of pure logic, Bev; all of the choice options championed here are nothing more than the educational fads that are all the rage south of the border.  In case you hadn’t noticed, the US lags BEHIND us in all international testing.  Why would you want to emulate that?  Using logic, Bev, the countries at the top of the international test scores have strong public systems - wouldn’t those be the systems you want to emulate?  How is it in your ‘logic’ that slavishly adopting failed practices will bring about an improvement in education?

On faith?  Well Wayne, faith is a powerful motivator - the underlying emotion.

I lost faith the moment one of the educationalists said my kid was developmentally slow. Since than, the lost of faith concerning the public education system has been confirmed over and over again, by the actions and behaviors of the public education system..

What about the data streams within the public education system? Wayne afraid you might lose faith in the public education model, that tosses kids like my kid, in the trash heap. Stamping them with stamps - capable at the very best a ‘C’ average. Afraid of looking inside the classrooms, at the individual basis and the various sub-groups and their outcomes?

What about looking at the minority of LD students being successful in the academic or advance high school programs?  A very small minority indeed in any high school, ranging in the 1 to 2 percent range.

The public education stats will displayed it, but what is more important, the data streams that are deliberately kept hidden from the public, rarely published, I wonder why this would be so?  The hidden agendas and interests of the stakeholders within the public education system, has a lot to do with that, but Wayne would call it pure conjecture.

Meaning of conjecture - “A conjecture is a proposition that is unproven. Karl Popper pioneered the use of the term “conjecture” in scientific philosophy.[1] Conjecture is contrasted by hypothesis (hence theory, axiom, principle), which is a testable statement based on accepted grounds. In mathematics, a conjecture is an unproven proposition that appears correct.[2]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjecture

How about a wager Wayne? Does the public education system operate under the conjecture model or the hypothesis model?

We can first start, with how educators squared it in their minds, when grading math tests, give a zero or half marks to students who uses methods that are not on the approved list, even though the answer is correct each and every time. How educators squared in their minds, teaching grade 10 math students, fractions using paper strips. Or look at the underlying reasons, why high school students are still working with paper strips to understand fractions. Explored that thread, it becomes obvious that the public education system, is working under the conjecture model, concerning mathematical knowledge and math levels of students.

What is clearly evident, the public education system is a conjecture model, working under unproven assumptions or propositions. The public education system, can prove 100 percent of the time, that the public education system is working well for 40 percent of the student population. But what the public education system, and for that matter any other education model, cannot prove that their education model is working well for 100 percent of their students.

Ergo, the public education system cannot justified attacks and raging war with alternative education models and choice models, when they themselves cannot prove without a doubt that the public education model is working well for 100 percent of the students. The data streams of outcomes and inputs will always display the data, that will show without a doubt, the public education model cannot prove that their model is the best model for all of the students, all of the time, and in all situations.

It is the reason why, those who work in the public education model, will always use the SES variables as their reasons for failure of students to thrive in the public education model, and never look within the public education data streams of inputs, outputs and outcomes. Looking within would mean that the, conjectures/propositions resting in the public education philosophies/ideologies are unproven assumptions. Or wishful thinking of those who dwell in the public education system arena.  The data streams will prove it each and every time.

Wayne writes - another assumption - ”  How is it in your ?logic? that slavishly adopting failed practices will bring about an improvement in education?”

Now Wayne, its time to look within the public education system, on what the public considers failed practices. Now where shall we start. So many places to pull the threads, following the threads through the networks within networks, determining if the education practices of the public education system are failed practices. As I said Wayne, anything is better, than the offerings of a public education system, that decided my child was not worth the expense, the time or effort to ensure a successful academic outcome for my child. Time to bring in the competition…......and education choice.

Interesting call for a school board looking for parents to sit on its PIC - something this government funds(ed).  What’s odd about this news release from this board is that usually the parents who sit on the PIC are drawn from those who are elected to school councils. Is this telling us something about the state of school councils in this board? I wonder why?

http://huron.bulletnewscanada.ca/2012/09/24/parents-sought-for-local-school-boards-committee/#comment-31508

“As I said, personal attacks are the easy way out - try refuting the actual topic under debate - do ?parental power? options help or hurt quality education?”

I see or read not personal attacks. What I see is a majority participating at this forum who don’t agree with you.

You do essentially what parents here have experienced for too long. You turn their disagreement into something personal.

When parents offer counter arguments via their own experiences you site them as wrong and needing facts by which to be relevant.

Fact - the education system is threatened by the organization, education and choice that could empower parents to choose something other than the status-quo.

Fact - the status quo doesn’t like that.

Not too hard to understand.

“When Doug was here, you used to blame him for side-tracking the discussion.  Since he is gone, and you love to nitpick at side issues, I would have to conclude that it wasn?t Doug derailing the debate.  Please try to stay on topic. “

See, this double standard of you scolding others here for getting personal, yet you see no problem in doing so yourself.

“What is clearly evident here is that no one can produce any credible research to refute the data.  Therefore, all you have is conjecture, hope and wishful thinking - in short, you want the world to take the choice argument on FAITH.”

And yet here you are Wainscotting.

“credible research” from your perspective is defined as anything that fits under your bubble. It doesn’t appear that research by any number of “credible” experts re: public education has done a very good job over the last decade does it? 

All educators of late seem to have is the blinding “faith” as handed down the pipe from well-paid bureaucrats, and education faculties churning out unsuspecting teacher wannabes.

“Following the same mistakes made in the US.” Not paying attention Wain? I’m pretty sure that the folks here have provided ample proof of US success stories where parents and choice go hand-in-hand to get children the best education they deserve.

“all of the choice options championed here are nothing more than the educational fads…....”

Ah, yes and we’ve NEVER seen fads come and go within the public education system right? Where do we start. How about the 1940’s Wain?

Be civil everyone. 

Getting back to the Parent Power Map, it is still an interesting and useful tool to have, in my opinion.