In one sense teachers “unions’ do what all organized groups do, advocate for the causes they believe in: like doctors, police, lawyers,nurses, steelworkers, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, etc.
It is all legal even if we may disagree with the cause or ascribe bad motives.

Over the years I have seen teachers’ groups labelled as “unions” all over the continent. As a result their professional role is downplayed, sometimes by the organizations themselves in reaction to the labelling.

When we label kids as “bad” and offer neither hope nor support to improve, guess what they decide? “To heck with you’. If you want to treat me like this, i shall live up to your expectations.”

Perhaps a decade or two of looking for the good might change their behaviour, since crapping on them for every mistake, real or imagined, has not worked.

If teachers’ unions were so powerful their members would not have voted for the Harris government in massive numbers in 1995.

When British Columbia tried to get teachers to voluntarily vote to leave their federation in the late 1980s, the membership overwhelmingly rejected this.
Why?
Not because they were all “lefties”, “pinkos” or other bad things, but because the federation was, despite its flaws, better than the alternatives.

The labelling of teachers’ organizations over the decades has not helped improve the profession.

John,

I’m also surprised at the ad campaign this time around.  I’ve not met anyone who actually LIKED it.  That whole ‘vote against kids’ thing got under people’s skin.  I don’t know how it could have helped the liberal campaign.

Don’t even place the teachers’ unions in the same place as doctors, lawyers, nurses, steelworkers or the police. All professions that have accountability.  So unlike the teachers’ unions, where accountability is secondary to the protection of teachers. Or the latest example of the recently resigned chair of the Ontario College of Teachers. Need I say more.

Teachers unions across Canada, have the most political capital compared to the private unions and other associations that forms to discussed salaries, etc, but are not unions. Not only the most political capital, but are in the position where their members are working across the whole education system, having their say in education policy, pushing education policies that favours their best interests, and more or less have a government seat in some aspect, where one or more members are formulating education policy, even down to the playgrounds of schools, and what equipment should be on the playground.

Given that, if a teacher member, insisted to go this way, which ran contrary to the union’s direction, a phone call is place, or a quick word in the member’s ear is sufficient to have the member tone down his words, and actions. Between the unions and the other arms in public education, the processes of public education has been completely been politicized, and where each of the arms rub the backs of each other, to work for their best interests. The only labeling going on is labeling the rest of the population outside the education system as not being good enough, not made of the right stuff, and where all must adapt and adopt whatever are the favours of the month without questioning it.

“OECTA?s local leaders and members deserve a great deal of credit for the way they embraced the ?Speak for Children? campaign and engaged their communities. Energy and creativity were the order of the day. An unprecedented number of members volunteered to work for the candidate of their choice.”

How cute, when they order their members to pay $60 for the 2011 election, Speak for Children to advance the goals of the members and their unions.
I wonder how many union members resented to pay the extra $60?  But the private member’s bill in Ottawa might throw a wrench in unions’ financial activities, and probably be a real eye opener for the union members what their dues are going to. The percentage of dues, that are being directed at other activities than the percentage of dues going to contract negotiations, and other related activities related to their members.

Of all the unions, private or public, it is the teachers’ unions that does not have any hesitation in labeling the various parts of society with unflattering names, and as the parent blogs have stated, nor the brainwashing of the public, to trick them into working for the best interests of the unions and the public education system. And one of the very successful tricks, is the P4E, a front posing and acting on the behalf of the teachers’ unions in Ontario, and sometimes all of Canada.

” When we label kids as ?bad? and offer neither hope nor support to improve, guess what they decide? ?To heck with you?. If you want to treat me like this, i shall live up to your expectations.?

Another favourite used by unions and administration,  because it suits their best interests, and puts the emphasis and focus back unto the kids and the outside SEC factors. Guess what, John, there is a considerable portion of children that enters into the education system, are labeled and sorted, because they provide the future members and support staff to take care of their learning needs. And to the boards, it represents more expenditures and a big fat headache dealing with the unions and their contracts, as well as dealing with the various agendas within the education system. As for myself, and to a great many parents, we are force to play the game of the educrat’s dance. Some play better than others, but the ones that play very good, are the ones that obtain insider’s knowledge. Where it matters who you know, rather than what you know, because parents’ political capital is only what the arms including the unions will grant to the taxpayers and parents.

Yes, the ad campaign was poorly done.

I think it good that you have ads (non partisan)
asking voters to look at certain issues.

The ad campaign about education. I did not get it, either. It was not clear.

Mind you it was not the only poor ad campaign in the election.

John,I think the behaviour of the Teacher`s Union in Ontario,I am not familiar with the others but it seems B.C. has the same flavour,the way it conducts itself
during elections as well as during negotiations is not fitting of the elegance of the profession.I watched Sun TV last night and a Union Rep was on insisting they`d done the right thing during the campaign.

As a professional from another discipline,I would personally be appalled and uncomfortable at the low level tactics the Teacher`s Union in Ontario takes on-they should also do a job on who they send out to the media,the guy seemed more suited to an interview for a part on the Sopranos.
I watched the Agenda last week several nights,Hudak was in a straight jacket,he couldn`t discuss anything,even McGuinty`s drunken spending as the Sun`s article this week about the cost of all day K..Sure legislate all these feel good electoral promises,give the teachers anything they want and print more money to cover the costs…/is it that much fun being premier of Ontario?

For all this,you get the Union vote…I wish Hudak had not been so petrified but after John Tory`s attempt,we might as well just say the Liberals are in forever unless the Union ads and tactics are forbidden.
Legislation needed,but who will bring it to Parliament,the Liberals?

I am NOT excusing bad behaviour by anyone.
What I AM saying
is that if you blame all for the actions of a few,
even if they are “leaders”
and do it long enough,
The rank and file will live
down
to your expectations.
We should not do this with children
or adults.

Should we dump capitalism
because of Bernie Madoff, or Enron?
doctors because of Charles Smith?
politicians because of a scandal involving some?

Blaming an entire group because of the actions of a few- sounds like stereotyping to me.
Moreover, it does not raise the bar for all of them.

John,I see the logic in your thinking but it is 25 degrees off the mark,I am talking apples,you are speaking of something else entirely-yes,like Hudak who didn`t,this blog needs to explicitly cite things as they are.
The Union mandate to have ad capaigns in any election should be illegal.
They represent the teacher lobby in Ontario,they in no way represent children and that`s what the ads insinuated.
I am very upset that teachers allowed their dues to be used this way but I also understand why.
It was and is incredibly unprofessional!

The actions of those who are in power and authority positions, should be the ones who are held up to much higher standards. Given it is a union, it is up to the members to do so, and as for the public we can only conclude, that the individual members agree with the actions and decisions of their members elected in their union positions.

Often used by the public education, discounting parents, students and treat bad outcomes by discounting them, and called them isolated. By the same token, of the union members defending the actions of those who are at the Ontario College of Teachers. Or the quiet acceptance of the awful commercials being used by one teachers’ union in Ontario. Or the almost quiet acceptance of paying extra dues to finance a political campaign. No individuals members are voicing their opinion in a public forum, saying they object to any of the activities taking place at the union HQ.

Funny, even the bad things that do happen in a school, one never hears from the union or the individual teachers. And if they do, it is to defend the current practices. Just like a couple of days ago, in my province, a lock down occur, a parent was arrested. The crime, being verbally loud, that threaten the safety of the school. What really happen is a frustrated parent, finally cracking and said what was on his mind, and what he thought of the principal. The rules and regulations that are well suited for the adults within the education system, and a union for the most part, defends the rules and regulations. At least a teacher if one decided to yell at their students, they have the protection of their union, but the parents, they have no protection, nor the students. Nobody comes in to defend them, and become the victims of the rules and regulations.

Until the individual teachers stand up, nothing can be done. But if the individual teachers do stand up, they meet the same fate as one teacher who was a whistle blower. Two years suspension, is a powerful incentive to remain quiet, as the latest arrest of a parent, is a power incentive to become yes parents, accepting their decisions on your kids as the only option. I can see the next set of parent-teachers interviews at that school, with parents saying yes, yes, and very few questions being asked. Very nice civil, polite conversations between parents and teachers in fear of being arrested. How conducive is the school’s actions to arrest a parent, and one of the outcomes parent-teacher relationships are no longer effective, nor is there is any trust left? 

How conducive is the executive union’s actions, when eroding the trust and individual teachers are defending the actions, even though they disagree with the activities and actions of the executive?

Hi John
I get it! You don’t want all teachers tarred and feathered because of the actions of a few. Perfectly reasonable!
But “the few” are the teacher unions, the voices of teachers.
And who has the power to reign in these unions?
Not politicians! Every party is afraid of their power. Not parents, no one listens to us and we worry that any criticism offered may rebound on our children. Not children, they have no input in their own schooling.
Only teachers truly have a voice in the education system. You have the power to control the direction your union leaders take by electing only those who represent your wishes.
If you don’t want the occasional incompetent teacher to remain in the classroom, demand that the union get rid of them. There are always a few cases in the news that are so outrageous that I’m sure most teachers just cringe.
Slogans like “teachers’ working conditions are childrens’ learning conditions” are self- serving, and beneath you.
Please! Do something all you wonderful, competent, professional teachers out there! You are the only ones who can!

I agree with Nancy W.  although my guess is that there is little collective will on the part of individual teachers to rock the boat to the degree that it needs rocking, who would take on actually standing up for their profession to the long arm of the unions they pay to supposedly protect their profession.

If teachers started their own in-house movement toward their own choices, including who and how they’re represented the union hierarchy and gov’t would have more to fear than parents making educated choices for their students.

I actually think that teachers who fought against what they dislike about their unions, would see lots of support from the general public.

Most of us just want to do our jobs as best we can and if we learn better ways we tend to use them, if the support is there.

The “unions” are there because they are allowed to be there. They are the best we got.

As noted earlier, when the BC government encouraged people to leave for a different arrangement, it failed overwhelmingly.

So those who want to see it work differently, come up with something better.
One possibility, for those entering service- political life or “union life” or corporate boards of directors- limited terms.

If you know you have to return from whence you came you might focus on improving things for your former/future colleagues.

And if those in the punditocracy and blogosphere had all the right answers, you would think we would have them.

My reading of history suggests that for most of us in most aspects of life, progress is slow and uneven with many backward steps.

see….no will. If you’re content please continue as you were and stop looking for change when really, the leadership just isn’t there from individual teachers do improve the system because their own personal lives are going just find thank-you.

This is why education never changes…..no will from the inside and those that want to keep unions for the sake of, well, keeping they unions, even though individual teachers want something else do what John just did.

What unions do not want to hear for the most part, are the bad outcomes that reflects and tarnishes the image of unions. Public sector unions, and at their headquarters, they do a pretty good job at attacking the users who bring up negative outcomes of policies to keep in line with the contracts. How many users, had their garbage red tagged, for not meeting the narrowed criteria?  Have no idea, but it is the user that is blamed, for not following the new regulations, and as a result, users often do things that really breaks the rules, by tossing the garbage in a ditch or a wooded lot.

If I took the attitude, if the support was there, my youngest would not have the abilities she does have in the sciences, nor would anyone of us, including teachers, would have thought she has the makings of becoming a physicist, if I thought that it was important to have support of the school. Far from it, I plowed on and work around an education system, that lives in the dark ages concerning children and their learning. Or the many other individuals who became very successful, despite the education system, if they too have thought support was a necessary item for their success.

The unions are there, because it is a necessary element, and in fact crucial to prevent employers from taking advantage of their labour force. Unfortunately, public sector unions not only have the protection of their unions to do just that, they also have the political power and are in the position to change education policy that works best for their own best interests. Members of the public sector unions, have only themselves to blame, because they have become willing partners in political gamesmanship, and power grabs, where in the end the users, their clients, the taxpayers, pay the price for policies that do not work well for them.

“My reading of history suggests that for most of us in most aspects of life, progress is slow and uneven with many backward steps.”

If I remember my philosophies correctly, the above statement is all about the elite controlling the behaviour of the masses. It becomes a handy excuse not to make changes within organizations and governments, because progress is slow with the masses and too many backward steps to earned enough merit to be funded. It is why the public education system, and its arms are in the mess it is today, because the individuals are not standing up, and saying enough. Would you be the individual, if you had my kid sitting in your class standing up, using her as an example how bad the education practices are?  Would you be the one to stand up to your local union, saying this practice or another practice are hurting the SE children from reaching their potential?  Hard to do, and just as difficult for a parent who is trying their best to work for the best interests of their children, against the flow and pulse of the education system, where support is given only to those who are in lock-step with the goals of the various arms (the elite) of the public education system. Support of others is not necessary nor crucial, but without support, it is made that more difficult to persevere, and persist, going against the flow.

I have been going against the flow and the current for the last 10 years, and now I am still going against the flow, but the current is no longer a problem, since I am now floating on my back, enjoying the view. Support still not there, given the fact that outsiders are still excluded in a system that long ago has been politicized, to work for the best interests of the agendas within the public education system.

Nancy,

“How many users, had their garbage red tagged, for not meeting the narrowed criteria?”  I’m assuming that you are referring to the garbage collectors in your area - I’m not sure what you mean by ‘red tagging’.  When you assert that there are ‘narrowed criteria’, I must ask you, “Who set the criteria?”  Was it the garbage person?  Was it the union? Was it the local municipality?  Your analogy works quite well here and on another thread on this topic where we seem to have two similar threads running simultaneously.

I would hope that you would agree with me that it is your local municipality that sets the rules for what is allowed to be put in your landfill.  Would you have the garbage person ignore the rules and risk losing his job for your failure to follow the local regulations?  Would you have the union call for a ‘garbage boycott’ until the regulations are changed?  How would you solve it?  Well, for one, you would need to take it up with those that created the rules - the municipality.  You would/should call for new candidates to run in the next election and turf the garbage regulators out.

That situation is the school system in a microcosm.  As an example, let’s look at the BSD as raised on the other thread:
The principals and boards set the schedules for the school day - but you want to blame the union.  You want educators to ‘stand up’ and fight the union on this position - but it’s simply not the union’s doing.  What do you want the union do?  Call a wildcat strike until the BSD is eliminated?

It’s truly ironic that you call for the teachers and unions to use civil disobedience when it suits your purpose.  However, when teachers/unions DO stand up to politicians and policies that they feel are detrimental, but disagree with your political views - you call for the unions to be disbanded and prevented from political advertising.  You feel that unions abuse their power to influence politicians and policies - but you WANT them to do that for things you believe in.

Nancy, there’s only one solution for you - run for the presidency of the public sector unions and you can use that power and influence as you will. 

Of course rules and regulations are set, but they still have to be mindful of the contracts of the unions. After all, certain rules were place where garbage must be picked-up with a certain distance from the road. Red tag is put on if garbage is placed beyond the distance, and this new rule came into place, because of the demands of the unions, not having their workers over-taxed themselves in picking up garbage. Rather comical, to see garbage men out with their measuring tapes, and telling the home owners your garbage will not be picked up this week, because it is 62 cms away from the curb. Red tagging if not in your area, will be soon in your area, and garbage workers become known as the red taggers, much like the “Ritas” working parking control.

But the administration has its fair share to, on changing rules and regulations to suit them, rather than the best interests of their customers, The customers are expected to obey, and they never do get consulted before hand. But that does not mean people do not get upset when the rules and regulations do not work, It does not mean that people take it like lying dogs, and shrugged it off like the individuals teachers seem to do when faced with new rules and regulations imposed by the brass of the union, or the school boards, that makes life more difficult for their students.

BSD was the solution, to the union contracts that imposed sharp divisions on breaks, instruction time, and supervisory duties. BSD would not have been developed if there was no need to, and on the whole parents were not calling for it. The public education system and the governance of it, gives the opportunity for each arm of the education system to pass the buck, and kick the can games, when a parent asked questions. Not my job and/or you can’t fault me, that decision lies with this department, are favourite tactics to have parents crawl back under the rock they came from, or pushed their valid concerns under the rug.

What you call civil disobedience, then what I did must be meet your definition of civil disobedience to the school, the school board and the ministry of education. As well as the teachers who close their doors of the classrooms, to teach in a matter that is more fitting for their students, but are against the pulse of the education arms, including their union contract. Both groups cannot effectively voiced our complaints out loud, for fear of repercussions, and more so with teachers. After all, the price of a whistle blower is a two year suspension for besmirching the image of public education system, compare to the good feel talk sessions of teachers who call their students some pretty rotten names. The same names, if a parent spewed out and if heard by a neighbor, or even a teacher, they have a duty to called child protection and report the parent. The parents pays a very steep price, like the whistle blowers,  compared to the teachers of bad behaviour.

You call it civil disobedience, I call it doing the right thing despite the difficulties and repercussions that result.in bending the rules or outright breaking of the rules. As for political ads by third parties, the major groups with the most political capital and funding, are making it next to impossible for groups without the political capital and funding, to get their messages out. Often it is the messages of the bad outcomes that are coming from the groups without political capital, are the ones that go unheard in society.

Which makes me wonder, why you would even suggest to me or anyone else with limited political capital, to go and run on an agenda that is the polar opposite of the agendas within the education system. The only pulled I have, is to have a sit-in at the minister’s office, with my documentation, and call a press conference. Actually quite effective, and you be amaze how things move to your liking, by just threatening it. However, in my case, I should never had to do that in the first place, but it did drive me to do these things, because the system is built for the needs of the working adults within the system. How many children lose out in a system, where brick walls are placed and other obstacles to prevent them from reaching their full potential? I don’t know, but I and my youngest have scaled enough brick walls, and walked around the obstacles, because of the rules and regulations, and not her LD. But it irks me, as well as other parents to see the parade of teachers on the sidelines watching us scaling the brick walls and detouring around the obstacles. Isn’t it about time, to use the examples in the classrooms, as supporting evidence that the union brass and their directions may not be good for the students, and for the teachers?