Sigh—they do get distracted down at the board office, don’t they!  I’m all for gay rights, but I wish boards and schools would focus on teaching the three R’s, rather than wasting taxpayers’ money on these silly posters.  It would be interesting to see the tab the taxpayers have to pick up for this hair-brained project. 
If classes were well-structured; rigorous learning were taking place; and discipline enforced in the classroom, on the school ground, and during lunch, then children would learn to respect one another.  But we have, in our public education system, kids running wild (Ontario is ground zero for bullying) and bullying not properly address—instead of focusing on educating and enforcing discipline, educrats would rather spend precious time and $$ making slick posters!  The lunatics have taken over the asylum!

Ms. Dare,

OK, no comment, just a simple question.  “What do you find objectionable about these posters?”

“The board spent about $8,500 in bursary funds on the posters, which were distributed to both elementary and secondary schools and posted on the board?s website. Mr. Bird could not pinpoint how many posters were actually on display throughout the TDSB?s nearly 600 schools, saying it was left at the discretion of each school.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/26/threesomes-on-toronto-school-board-posters-not-polygamous-spokesman/

Compliments of donated monies? I wonder how parents feel about monies from the bursary funds?
Maybe they think twice of donating, if they think it has gone too far?

Judging from the comments, overwhelmingly, people say it has gone too far.

In a comment - “Some of us are fed up with the social engineering. The PC crap used to be amusing, but now that the state is intent on sexualizing our children, we object. That doesn’t make those that object fundamentalists. I am socially liberal but do not want the state imposing its version of morality on my kid. This is not about tolerance and acceptance, it is about dividing people into identifiable “groups” versus understanding people as unique individuals. If by reactionary, you’re referring to people who react in opposition to government actions and policies that subvert parental rights, I gladly accept that label.”

One way of breeding intolerance, is to follow the example of Safe and Positive Spaces policies, where people are slotted and label into identified groups with the attached stereotypes, misconceptions and various levels of generalization statements regarding the individual groups. Tolerance is all about accepting the individual’s unique self, composed of the bits and pieces gender, race, ability and so forth.

It is hell on wheels, for people with disabilities when they are always seen as a ‘group with attached labels’, and not as individuals. Why it is so difficult for students with disabilities to be accommodated on the individual basis in the public education system. Ableism is well and alive along with lots of social prejudice inside our schools. Can’t use the word gay, but “I am so dyslexic” and other derogatory terms under learning ability,

I agree whole heartily with the above quoted comment.

What do I find objectionable about these posters? Well, lots of things, but let’s start with what the gay kids will think when they see the posters. I’m guessing that the poor kids will be pretty uncomfortable. The posters really are cringe-making, in my opinion.

Really, why would they make you cringe?  As far as the students are concerned, I’ll show them to my students and see what they think.

Sorry, busy day.  Will show it to the students Monday.

” Will show it to the students Monday. “

Glad we have that in writing. Care to name your school board Wain? We’ll be waiting to hear all about how you showed these to your students, their reactions, and that of their parents.

Seems that the TDSB has removed those posters from its site.

Guess public pressure from those who like Ms. Dare found the posters objectionable.

Hey Chuck - law suits are in the air

“In Ontario, family values and competing rights”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/in-ontario-family-values-and-competing-rights/article4570330/?utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_source=The Globe and Mail&utm_type=text&utm_content=TheGlobeandMail&utm_campaign=98040184

Don’t like parents to insert their rights..

“Toronto school board accused of ?endangering morals? of students over website link, poster campaign”

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1262908—toronto-school-board-accused-of-endangering-morals-of-students-over-website-link-poster-campaign

The above has cause quite a stir. Imagine, vegetables?

“Constitutional challenge threatens Ontario?s anti-bullying law”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/constitutional-challenge-threatens-ontarios-anti-bullying-law/article4571147/

Wayne, please do. Posters are still up -
http://www.tdsb.on.ca/_site/ViewItem.asp?siteid=10471&menuid=34019&pageid=28961

Although, they did remove the one web site, which was a head turner, as Rev. Charles McVety has described. Even I would be picking up the phone, screaming at someone at the board, which I am sure the Toronto School Board had one busy day, handling phone calls from irate parents.

But here is the site - http://www.positive.org/JustSayYes/

That’s the trouble with our public system, Wayne.  You’re telling us in other blogs that your children are woefully inadequate in the most basic math skills, but you’re willing to waste their precious time with your flippant attitude by showing them posters which obviously upset many parents.  Why aren’t you focused on your job, Wayne?  Shouldn’t you be spending your time helping these poor kids as much as possible?  Why did you go into teaching? 
Sorry, I get a little tired of teachers and admins who seem to have no other goal but to champion their own selfish causes one way or another, and get nasty with anyone who dares to challenge them…

Are for real Chuck?

I’ve repeatedly said I work for the BWDSB.

The TDSB has not removed these posters from their website.  The story on TV tonight was about removing links to teen sexuality sites - heterosexual sexuality.

I got busy today, wanted to make sure my students got their work done first - sorry if that has upset you.

Sheesh

I’m not really caring too much about what you do or don’t do with your students Wayne. You could make up just about anything.

The real kicker for me in all of this is that Ms. Dare had her opinion on a forum which her organization hosts.

You don’t like it.

You read assumptions and judgements in to her words.

You challenge what you don’t like because it doesn’t agree with your world view.

Isn’t that what these posters are supposed to be fighting against Wayne?

Sheesh. 

Greats points Bev!

What does appear “real” Wain is your intolerance of the views of anyone else. Ms. Dare’s in particular.

I would be concerned if you showed those posters to my kids. I’d want to know before hand and I’d want to know your why you felt you needed to use their learning time spent on this?

Yes Chuck,

Your prejudices (ie:  prejudice: to pre-judge before knowing the facts) are well-noted - you haven’t exactly kept them a state secret.  However, I would prefer to base my opinions on research. 

I have already noted here that the last time some posters were put up in our school by the GSA, they caused an uproar - mainly because the message was blunt, in your face and made many staff and students uncomfortable.  These posters by the TDSB are simply asking for tolerance, inclusion and the simple right to be in a school free from bullying - why would you, Ms. Dare, or anyone else object to that?  Why would that make you uncomfortable?  Do you not agree that these students have rights?

Therefore, since Grey and Bruce counties tend to be very ‘conservative’ and there were objections the last time, these students would make a good test group to see if these posters are any more or less controversial than the last set.

As far as the weak objections to ‘wasting’ time in a math class - ever heard of an opinion poll?  We will take a poll, COUNT the number of votes for, against and undecided; CALCULATE the percentages and RANK the results.  Heck, if time permits, we could even calculate the RATIO of for/against/undecided votes and those ratios compared to the entire group (BTW:  percentages, ratios and opinion polls are all in the Grade 9 math curriculum in case you were wondering.)  Hope this meets your stringent standards for a math class.

Because people find these posters offensive, Wayne, does not mean that we’re homophobic.  This is an unfair accusation in order to defend the status quo. 
Good that percentages, ratios, etc are in the curricula.  It was taught in grade 6 when my kids attended school.  Much younger kids can do this math, but I digress… 
Of course I’m concerned about time being wasted by teachers—you’re out of the classroom more days/annum than in the classroom, plus you’ve said so yourself that children really are struggling in math, so why are you using a poster which you know will take up classroom time because of debate?  In my humble opinion your decision is unfair to your charges.
Also, proper discipline by staff, backed up by their boards, would wipe out bullying better than any poster, or these anti-bullying programmes which waste even more classroom time and resources.

Nice try, Bev.

As Chuck would say, ‘you’re trying to suck and blow at the same time.’

Look up, look waay up, and you’ll see that I haven’t used the word ‘homophobic’ - yet.  Actually, if anything, you should be using the term ‘heterosexist’

What I have asked, is what you find objectionable about the posters.  Three of you have stepped around this issue so much, your dance cards are full.

The posters are about keeping a positive environment - is that what you find objectionable?

The posters are asking for tolerance - is that what you find objectionable?

These posters are asking for inclusive attitudes - is that what you find objectionable?

These posters are asking for freedom from bullying - is that what you find objectionable?

These posters are asking for people to treat everyone equally - is that what you find objectionable?

These posters are asking for people to respect each other’s human rights - is that what you find objectionable?

Guess what?  If those aren’t you’re objections, then ...

”  These posters by the TDSB are simply asking for tolerance, inclusion and the simple right to be in a school free from bullying - why would you, Ms. Dare, or anyone else object to that?  Why would that make you uncomfortable?  “

Tolerance, inclusion, and bullying?  Only for gay students, Wayne? How are the intolerance towards less capable academic students? Or the students who have the invisible disabilities?  Or the students who simply dress to get a reaction, to received attention? In my day, we had a few boys wear bow ties to school, with a nice white dress shirt, and press pants. Us kids never tease them, and if we did tease them, there was hell to pay. Not worth the trouble, and besides that, we thank our lucky stars our parents did not make us wear our Sunday best to school, In the day, where the adults paid immediate attention to bullying, and where there was immediate consequences for kids who bully.

Not today, and certainly not in 2012. The adults are too busy with the processes, and giving some group of students more rights than other groups of students, in fear of being sued. Of course the gay community has a degree of political and social capital to stake their case, and their do it at the expense of the Western Christian and Judaic culture plus any other group such as disabilities, faiths, or off-beat beliefs.

My point is, there is a far greater percentage of students that are not allow to be comfortable within their own skins, inside the public education system and its schools. A far greater percentage than what is composed of the gay community. And yet it is the gay community that are given the funding, gay-straight alliance clubs, and a lot of time/effort to make them feel comfortable. And yet everyone must adapt to their values and culture?  If we don’t, we become the bad guys?

Reviewing the literature, papers, research on gay and their struggles to be accepted, is like taking a trip through history, where it was only the gays being persecuted. Slanted, bias and rather easy to do when whole sections of the education curriculum has been wipe out. Elementary history, geography, spelling, grammar, and the classic literature being sanitized as not to offend the sensibilities of those who have been persecuted, the oppressed, and others throughout history, such as the Irish.

And yet it is offensive, just like the new positive safe space posters, giving out messages that the gays are in need of higher protection of bullying than the legal laws that are in place for one and all, and therefore the gay community in schools, trumped all and everything else. The new criteria, its not bullying unless one is gay. On Twitter, a new campaign to root out gay culture, it language being used disparaging. I heard it on CTV news, and the data, and I thought to myself, now the gay community has become the language police. I wonder how many people, straight or gay uses language that is discriminatory or disparaging towards other identified groups/minorities? Are the gay community going to provide the data, to provide for a balance and in the proper context? No, I did not think so, and besides being a mammoth task being the language police on Twitter.

As Bev, has stated - “Also, proper discipline by staff, backed up by their boards, would wipe out bullying better than any poster, or these anti-bullying programmes which waste even more classroom time and resources.”

To which the statement of Wayne’s - “Therefore, since Grey and Bruce counties tend to be very ?conservative? and there were objections the last time, these students would make a good test group to see if these posters are any more or less controversial than the last set.”

But would they be honest, Wayne? By high school, students have already learned to keep their honest opinions and values they hold in high esteem, under lock and key in a school setting. They do so for many reasons, and one of the top reasons to prevent teasing, bullying and putting a target on their back as being not part of the norm. Students have learned a long time ago, adults working at the schools, may take offense to the individual students, and their values, culture and belief systems that are not in keeping with the equity, social justice, and safe school policies, that puts gays in front of the line, and are the measuring stick for one and all.

“The posters are about keeping a positive environment - is that what you find objectionable?
The posters are asking for tolerance - is that what you find objectionable?
These posters are asking for inclusive attitudes - is that what you find objectionable?
These posters are asking for freedom from bullying - is that what you find objectionable?
These posters are asking for people to treat everyone equally - is that what you find objectionable?
These posters are asking for people to respect each other?s human rights - is that what you find objectionable?”

Between all media, approximately 95 percent of the comments are against this so called positive space campaign.

Positive space for who Wayne? ” They’re gay obsessed to the point of excluding 98 percent of the rest of the student body.”

Another comment - “....there was discipline order and respect, so called “progressive” thinking aint so progressive is it, oh and if anyone even mentioned having sex with vegetables they’d be front of a psychiatrist or a prison guard and rightfully so.”

From a teacher - “Excellent opinion. I too retired from teaching when radical feminism took over and logic went out the window. Discipline and good guidance of the young has given way to mollycoddling and sheer stupidity. Sex with veggies! I call this child abuse and the poisoning of young minds.”
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/27/take-back-classrooms-we-need-to-borrow-a-line-from-the-80s-and-just-say-no-to-educrats#.UGWS4DiJuhA.twitter

Its a Sun article, but the other big newspapers are just as upset - “It?s time for parents to start pushing back against the out-of-control educrats running our school systems.

From no-zero policies, to language codes that forbid words like husband or wife to crazy sex-ed encouraging kids to do things no adult should be talking about in public, the educrats are ruining our schools.

But if parents get involved, they can stop the madness.”

Just as hard hitting, as the Sun article. Really Wayne, what makes you think that the posters are asking for a positive environment, tolerance, inclusive attitudes (whatever that one means - kinda of scary eh?), freedom from bullying, treat everyone equally and the best one for last - respect for each other’s human rights.

Coming from a public education system, a monopoly where human rights and/or constitutional rights run according to legal liability risk, union contract agreements and the many agendas and interests of the stakeholders within the public education system. Firing teachers for giving out zeroes, to a Supreme Court of Canada hearing (still awaiting a ruling) on discrimination of the LD students, to bullying civil suits in small claims court, to parents retaining lawyers to protect their children’s right under the law, to the Toronto School Board coming to rescue for parents who have been chased off the sporting meets and regional games to everything in between. All in the name of some fanciful vision that dances to the ideology, interests and private agendas of those that lie within the public education system.

The posters are exactly what is wrong in the public education system that offends the sensibilities of the majority of people, especially when education is being done on the taxpayer’s dime. So Wayne, prove your above assertions, without crossing the line of discrimination. I love to hear the explanation of inclusive attitudes…...........given the realities of the constitution and human rights legislation.

Interesting results (by secret ballot):

37% for /  26% against /  37% undecided

Not nearly as negative as I thought it would be.

We also broke it down by poster:

The most favourite posters were the simple positive space message and the love knows no gender.  The least favourite were the secret and the rules (too much reading?)

he posters are about keeping a positive environment - is that what you find objectionable?

The posters are asking for tolerance - is that what you find objectionable?

These posters are asking for inclusive attitudes - is that what you find objectionable?

These posters are asking for freedom from bullying - is that what you find objectionable?

These posters are asking for people to treat everyone equally - is that what you find objectionable?

These posters are asking for people to respect each other’s human rights - is that what you find objectionable?
http://www.whatismyresults.com

i don’t think that there is anything objectionable in the posters

Therefore, since Grey and Bruce counties tend to be very ‘conservative’  these students would make a good test group to see if these posters are any more or less controversial than the last set….

http://timeeducation.in/csir-ugc-net-results-june-2013-examination/1068

thanks for these amazing words .

http://timeeducation.in/csir-ugc-net-results-june-2013-examination/1068

Its a Sun article, but the other big newspapers are just as upset - “It?s time for parents to start pushing back against the out-of-control educrats running our school systems.

From no-zero policies, to language codes that forbid words like husband or wife to crazy sex-ed encouraging kids to do things no adult should be talking about in public, the educrats are ruining our schools.

But if parents get involved, they can stop the madness.”
http://www.stremslawfirm.net/