Personally, when I see taxpayers’ $$ wasted on studies that, to the average person, is common sense, it galls me.

Please get rid of the distracting clutter teachers; instead, focus on teaching your students how to read and do math!

Bev should be blowing steam when she sees this - http://ies.ed.gov/funding/grantsearch/details.asp?ID=1204

Otherwise, there is quite a lot of research concerning distracting environments involving children who have autism.

When I read the article, the mention of maps. The last time I seen maps along with a globe was when I went to school. Maps of the pulled down climb have not been a feature in the classroom for a very long time. In fact, for my youngest I ended up purchasing the pull down maps of the world and various regions, including a globe to aid in my youngest child’s education - how big the world really is. Sure she got tease by her friends, but at least she knows where the countries are located when she listens or reads about countries in the news.

When she was younger, the globe would spin and she would stop the globe with her finger. Her task of the day, was to go unto the internet to find out a little something about the country and report back to me. She put in some reading time, and when she went unto a web site, called Webkinz - she earned Webkinz cash by scoring big on geography, science and math. So than she could buy things for her virtual community of Webkinz pets.

Silly old cranks,

Look at the work environment in Google or Microsoft.  All progressive creative organizations that are changing the world exponentially—> understand that the working environment supports outcomes.And we are talking outcome$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

What is next?  Shackling the toddlers to a two by four till they mindlessly spout the alphabet?  No bouncy ball…. no distracting colors….....just repeat the alphabet!!!!

What your blog post offers is a false equivalency.  Attractive welcoming classrooms are not the final outcome for educators - they are a tool in the tool kit.  In my experience teachers who care about the student’s learning environment also CARE about the student’s learning.

Welcome back Mirka. Don’t like the little darlings to learn some knowledge about the world?  You probably would have freak out this morning, my youngest sent me a e-mail and I must say well written on the foolishness of a schools sending the teens home for shorts, mini skirts and tank tops. They were told it was too distracting for the boys. The content of the e-mail had some valid points that requires background knowledge. However, as a parent it was well-constructed, just like the way I taught her. Actually, the progressive schools don’t worry about the little darlings having good writing skills.

But don’t worry, the Toronto School Board once again wins the door prize for progressiveness of half-baked decisions. Of course, the kids are the losers….......” Swimming, archery at camp too dangerous for students, school says”  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/swimming-archery-at-camp-too-dangerous-for-students-school-says-1.2659573?cmp=rss

Poor kids, are back to dodging the street dealers and other nefarious characters that are apparently deem safe. One thing about the K to 12 education system, it is all okay to spend ludicrous amounts of education funding for research, but when it comes to students using their own money, swimming, archery and walk in nature are deemed unsafe.

As for the busy classrooms, filled with visuals - according to the research, not only bad for autism children but other children with attention problems. I remember reading an article years ago, when my mother was still alive. It was speaking about the differences between European and North American parents regarding busy bedrooms alive with colour versus the plainer bedroom with soft colours. The gist of the story, there is a time to stimulate children and a time not to stimulate children. The article stuck with me all these years The European parents were all structure and less stimulation. Whereas, the NA parents were all about far less structure and 24/7 stimulation. My mother and I sat down over tea, discussing the pros and cons. She did not approve of my oldest child’s room. Far too bright for her tastes, and when we moved, her bedroom decor went to very soft colours, leaving the yellow curtains. The only brightness to the room, and you know something Mirka. I had no more problems for her afternoon nap or going to bed.

Something to be said about visuals in the classroom…...........too much of it is probably too distracting. The visuals should be tone down, in favour of knowledge content. At least if the students become distracted, they might learn a new piece of knowledge, instead of following yellow bumble bees .....just saying.  I could not resist a comment - “ONTARIOS OFFICiAL MOTTO IS

‘WE TAKE THE FUN OUT OF EVERYTHING”

Silly old cranks,

I posted with nuance.  My world is not black and white as yours - I work in the real world.

It is not a choice between engaging classroom environments and engaging teaching…..all children have the right to both.

Learning is fun. That is when it turns to something close to magic.  You argue that learning should be Spartan, I argue that it should be more Athens centered.

Sparta or Athens?

lol, Mirka, you say that you ‘posted with nuance’.  I see no subtlties in your blog postings.

When I went to open house at my son’s grade first classroom I was very impressed by meticulously prepared decoration with impeccable little cute details, tastefully displayed on boards.  On every desk there was an apple for the parent with a paper leaf attached to it with a poem saying that a parent is a teacher too.  This was exactly the opposite to the teacher’s attitude towards parents and students equally for she was not detail oriented when selecting the sequence of teaching (thought money adding before introducing basic addition) never assigned a homework nor bothered to answer parent’s notes.  She complained that she has 20 student and no minute to spare. Seeing her classroom I understood where the time went.  Only actual teaching matters in the classroom, not boards, tablets, smart boards…etc. for these are only distractions.  We don’t want entertaining schools, but effectively teaching schools first of all.  Learning just like working may be entertaining but it is not their primary purpose to be so…

Bev,

while you chuckled you did not respond. Sparta or Athens ??????- there is considerable nuance in the question…..

please advise.

I’ll respond for Bev. Bev, I hope you don’t mind, and feel free to disagree…. but, I just read the above and I had to say:

Please give us BOTH: Athens and Sparta.

Then I as the parent with access to School Choice can CHOOSE which of my children would benefit from which particular school and which particular teaching methods, and which particular educational system. Maybe the same one for all my kids, maybe a different one for each.

I WANT TO CHOOSE between ATHENS, SPARTA, CARTHAGE, TYRE, UR, ALEXANDRIA, HARAN, or perhaps I’d like “out” of Ancient Mesopotamia, Phoeneica, Egypt, etc. altogether and choose something entirely different…..I, the parent, am responsible for my children’s welfare and best interest, and I should do my duty, research the schools and the ways they teach, and select the one that is best suited to MY child’s abilities.

In the meantime, public schools should continue to exist for those who want them and need them - as I’ll be the first to admit there are great public schools, I went to one myself for four years and excelled at a more difficult school. Then my Mother moved me and I was bored for the next three with unengaged kids. Good schools DO exist, unfortunately not as many as we need.

Different strokes for different folks. Both Spartans and Athenians had much to offer.

GO SCHOOL CHOICE!

Mirka, am I to believe that you want education choice? I somehow doubt it. Your original question to Bev - “It is not a choice between engaging classroom environments and engaging teaching…..all children have the right to both.
Learning is fun. That is when it turns to something close to magic.  You argue that learning should be Spartan, I argue that it should be more Athens centered.” 

I somehow doubt the decor of a classroom has any relationship with engagement of students. Unless the K to 12 educators think they can engaged students with the bells and whistles rather than than good teaching practices that produces good academic outcomes for all students.

As for your last post, “I, the parent, am responsible for my children’s welfare and best interest, and I should do my duty, research the schools and the ways they teach, and select the one that is best suited to MY child’s abilities.”  Good luck, since the vast majority of parents are not permitted to act in the best interests of their children. The only options open to them are of larger pocketbooks and legal remedies that also requires larger pocketbooks.

So Mirka, I take it you want choice for your children but not choice for others. Why don’t you head on over to P4E. You be in good company, pushing for the new progressive ‘moral’ pedagogy instruction and self-taught knowledge and skills for the kiddies. .

Dear Aparent,

scroll up and see that the ‘regular’ contributors were advocating Sparta.

I agree with you that balance is important.  But I do favor Athens, it has served me and my children well. Athens was the birthplace of discriminating thought that lead to radical developments in math and science. 

Dear Nancy,

Please stop attributing to me what I do not think nor do I say.  Your vociferous volume based on false assumptions is not helpful.  Nancy you were part of the executive of this organization for many years.  Do your posts reflect the group?  If it does then this group is tarnished by the sloppy thinking.

Dear Mirka,  this is a different Nancy on this blog who is a commenter as you are.  All are entitled to voice their own opinions as long as it is done in a respectful way.

HI Mirka, here’s my answer.  Sparta—especially for the poor children because the discipline and the rigor of a sound education would be a wonderful gift from our public education.  It would give them a better chance to enjoy Athens as adults! 

My second reason for choosing Sparta:  for five years, I went to a very poor public school in Windsor, ON.  There were children who didn’t have shoes, and there were no breakfast programmes; however this was during the era when departmentals were written, so the gr 1—8 curicula was excellent, so all of the children (despite some of them being hungry) could read and were very good in math.  Many whom I still know have gone on to be very successful.  We had Sparta and Athens, with an art teacher; a music teacher a band, a library, drama classes, a fully-equipped science lab.

Today, there’s no $$ for Athens—even though we’re spending far more to educate a child, because the $$ is siphoned off for the salaries, benefits, and gold-plated pensions of layered bureaucracy, and teachers.

The above is why school buildings are crumbling.

Because of our current situation, I have no choice but to choose Sparta.

Thanks for asking btw

My choice is Athens, and here’s why.

/newsletter/archives/market.pdf

Haven’t read your link yet, Malkin, but in my ignorance, I’ll throw in another compelling reason for choosing Sparta:  children are out of the classroom for two extra weeks (compared to the 50’s 60’s and even 70’s) because of the teachers’ unions wanting 10 pd days/year. 

In conclusion:  nowadays there’s neither the time nor the $$ for Athens.  For the children, we have to go with Sparta.  Giving children the gift of a sharp mind by teaching them so that they have a superior grasp of the basics has to be the primary focus.

Thank you Malkin,

I love that your post uses a piece from one of the old newsletters.  I looked forward to those and read them cover to cover.  There is a lot to be said for considered, thoughtful, measured information.  You did not reach as many people in those days - but those newsletters were stellar!

Thank you for choosing a bit of nostalgia that supports my assertion that this is a nuanced question.

We agree on Athens for the same reasons.  I speak to this with my lens as a senior high school teacher.  Athens serves my students well.

I thought I’d try another thread and it was with a kind of amused despair that I noted familiar symptoms of failure to do homework, read or apprehend what is before you. In my classes, I discussed the difference between ‘ignorance,’ which means ‘not knowing stuff’ – which is the case for us all in one way or another, and is remediable – and ‘stupidity,’ which is the decision that one knows enough and need not learn more – which is not remediable. All of my students, from grades 8 through 12, comprehended this easily.

Comparing the educational systems of Athens and Sparta is one thing – although those who chose Sparta should have read and understood that last paragraph: “The picture which comes down to us of Sparta in the fifth and Fourth centuries BC is that of one of the least literate people in Greece, if not the ancient world as a whole. Sparta had virtually no science or literature, and little art. The Spartan economy was basic; relying heavily upon slave and serf labour, and communication with the outside world was cut off.” And nobody now would care to have been female in that society.”

Those who would choose Athens should realise that there were no schools – only tutors – who generally taught families’ children. Most of the tutors were educated slaves – a pattern used by the Romans, who sought educated Greek slaves for their children’s tutors. Comparing Athenian education of c.400BCE and present day Canada is like comparing apples and elephants. Athenian society was incredibly different from ours (try reading Pericles’ famous Funeral oration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pericles’_Funeral_Oration; in that article the discerning reader might also notice that Pericles was the son of Xanthippos - a curious datum in which I wriggle and bask.)

There were no classes as we know them, and certainly none which compare with what we have here. Socrates – who walked about the Agora and taught young men (not children, or girls!) was given the hemlock for teaching critical thinking skills in that Peripatetic School. He died in poverty, asking a friend to repay a debt he owed.

Most teachers in the USA get less than Canadian teachers, and there’s a trend to pay them less [as a result of the economic policy of ‘austerity,’ which is a notion of firing people to get people back to work. That policy was based on an economic paper riddled with errors and now long discredited [qv ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_in_a_Time_of_Debt]

Maybe there’s truth in the adage “You get what you pay for.” For an example of this, try using the USA experience of low scores on international student testing – and for additional credit, try reading this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-greene/teacher-pay-education-reform_b_5488033.html

The relationship between the Protestant religions and the development of capitalism has been well known since Max Weber’s seminal work “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism,” written well before WWI. Those interested in a more easily digested appreciation might look up James Burke’s hour-long video, “Credit Where It’s Due.”

I shall add there is a relationship between the British-Protestant values and the development of the public schools in Canada. http://www.gutenberg.ca/ebooks/putman-egertonryerson/putman-egertonryerson-00-h.html#CHAPTER_XII

It does explain the development of the provincial education systems and more so for British Columbia, the latecomer to Confederation on the activism of the BC teachers’ union and unrest.

Just some info on rent-seeking.

1. Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

2. Library of Economics and Liberty - http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentSeeking.html

3. Public Choice theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice

4. A paper - Rent Seeking: Some Conceptual
Problems and Implications
http://mises.org/journals/rae/pdf/rae1_1_8.pdf

5. Another paper - EDUCATION, RENT SEEKING
AND GROWTH
http://www.ec.bgu.ac.il/monaster/admin/papers/0913.pdf

6. Another facet - “The root of the problem can be summarized in three terms:  (1) teachers’ unions, (2) education schools, and (3) the federal government. Each of these has become its own rent-seeking and bureaucratic institution, following a dynamic, well described by Public Choice Economics, that serves themselves as institutions but bears little relation to what most people would think of as the purposes of education, let alone public education.” http://www.friesian.com/public.htm