The BC teachers are by far the worst paid of the “have” provinces. Wages in Ontario and Alberta (that is right Tory Alberta) are $20 000 higher. Vancouver and the lower mainland (1/2 of BCs population) have the highest housing prices in Canada.

BC pays up to half the cost of private education depending on how close schools are to provincial critria. This is emerging as the place to get the money.

I should point out for those not familiar will collective bargaining, the list above is a list of demands for negotiation. Management will have tabled an equally “interesting” list of take aways. Negotiations works like this. You saw it off in the middle eventually.

I don’t think anyone would be shocked to discover a high % of GLBT teachers in BC who wish to take care of a partner the same as “family”.

Ms. Dare,

I’m glad you used the term, ‘teacher’s salaries’.  Seems you might need a refresher on what a salaried employee is.  Here is a quote from about.com, “A Salaried Employee is paid annually. Salaried employees are usually supervisory, managerial, or professional employees who work on an annual basis and are not paid an hourly rate. Salaried employees are typically considered to be exempt from overtime pay.”

Notice, that they are not paid an hourly rate - so comparison is generally meaningless.  Before you get all hot under the collar about short hours and long holidays - let me remind you about the other end of the spectrum as well, there is no such thing as overtime.

Ever go to your child’s school in the evening for a parent/teacher conference?  Ever drop your child off early in the morning for band practice?  Ever go to the school on the weekend for a sports tournament or a school play?  If that describes your experience, then remember that a teacher was there every time for you and your child.  That teacher didn’t get ‘time and a half’ for it - that time was given free of charge (just part of the package). 

It’s actually quite sad that people like you who love to add up all the time that we are ‘not working’ blindly ignore all the hours we spend ‘off the clock’ coaching, marking, prepping, answering concerns, and so on. Furthermore, when teachers like those in BC ‘work to rule’ to remind the public of how much we voluntarily give of our time, people like you suddenly start to howl about sanctions and forcing teachers to volunteer their time - try that with an hourly employee, it won’t work.

After reading the comments I felt compelled to write. Teachers in private schools in Ontario, where students pay tuition are, I’m sure, paid differently. I am a private school teacher. I get paid only for the time spent directly in front of students. I do NOT get paid for ANY prep time, for any research time; no sick days, no benefits, no overtime. When I am taking a required course, the course is covered by the school, my time is not. Writing out report cards, speaking to parents, attending staff meetings, writing letters about school issues, holding after school workshops, extra practise sessions, etc. are all NOT covered.

Why do I CHOOSE to remain at this school you are wondering?

I do this because I believe in giving children a strong foundation that surpasses what the Ministry Guidelines require. I do this because my boss, the principal believes in giving children a strong foundation. I do this because my colleagues believe in giving children a strong foundation. I am qualified and educated to earn a living in the corporate sector earning close to 6 figures. But because I remain committed to helping educate future generations, and because I prefer to have a job where I have more time for my own children’s upbringing and education, I remain at a job that pays very close to MINIMUM WAGE. Maybe this doesn’t say much about my “financial” know-how; but do not knock my dedication and that of my colleagues - all devoted professionals - by your silly comments explaining how teachers belonging to a board are ‘entitled” to more. You have just turned their vocation into a manufacturing job whereby they “churn” out children who are hopefully “educated”, and do it for the money, not for the love of children or education (not all of them, of course.)

Those who do it because they believe in what they do, may wish to earn more, but understand that the process of educating is a vocation - and will continue trying to transfer knowledge regardless of pay, and without union leaders to stand up for I consider are laughable demands.

Malkin must be applauded and commended for her efforts in educating us - the taxpayers, as to what is being done regarding our future generations. What’s more, she is to be applauded and commended for providing a means whereby we are educated about what else could be done to improve educational standards for ALL children.

It’s time we stopped arguing over semantics and started working towards a common good - getting our future generations literate and numerate to the BEST of their potentials.

I did a little bit of investigation, on the withholding of report cards and other administration duties of teachers. Teachers are still recording, reporting to parents, but are not reporting to the administration when it comes to grades or for that matter any administration paper work, including IEPs. The striking teachers have been banned from the IEP meetings, compliments of the school boards, leaving the principals and the school board staff to attend the IEP meetings, and paper work concerning the IEP process. Might be a problem, but I think most parents will be thinking less people to wrestle with at the meetings, and a greater chance of obtaining the educational needs for their children. What I had to laugh at, is the school boards asking parents to volunteer for supervisory duties at schools, to lessen the work load of the non-teacher staff, so they continued to do their administration duties.

Few complaints from parents, judging from the news articles, but as the strike wears on, it will become a problem for parents and students. Right now, very little impact until the teachers steps up the campaign of working to rule, and the school boards responses to working to rule. If like other teachers’ strike, the parents/students will be used as the battering rod between the teachers’ union and the school boards.

Wayne, historically the models of unions were based on the industrialized, models of the 20th century. Likewise, professional unions including the teachers, are also based on the industrialized union models. The image of hours, rather than salaries is well imprinted unto the public, and both the unions and the school boards plays the hours card very well to advance their best interests. The teachers’ contracts, is another symbol of the many clauses breaking down the work day during the operation hours of a school, accounting for each minute of the instructional time. My point is, that the image of salaried employees is not strongly associated with teachers, but the hours are strongly associated with teachers. Blame that on the spin of the union brass, school boards and others within the education system, More importantly,parents if they want anything done, it has to be done on the operating hours of the school. and not on the parents’ schedule. Have you ever heard of an IEP meeting on Saturday morning?

My second point, is that the education services dealing with the actual education of a student have become part and parcel of the union contracts, as well as the school boards using the education services provided for students as its means to control access to the education services. Education services that can only be access by parents and students during the operation hours of a school, And not the kind of services such as a school concert or sport’s tournament, which is not considered education services that are essential for the education of students.

My third point, is professions like teachers, have no set hours, like a person on an assembly line, whose working day can be neatly broken down to their job duties in a set number of working hours, and call it a day. Isn’t it about time, that the professional unions developed a new model based on no set hours for the 21st century?

1) Teachers do have set hours. This is their teaching time + in some contracts 15 minutes before and/or after class. All of the rest is purely voluntary.

2) Why have teachers historically had the summer + winter break + March break off? Because parents, not teachers, demanded that their children NOT be in school for family vacation reasons.

3) The vast majority of teachers do their marking, planning repoting at home but some stay late or come in early to do it at school. You don’t see this unless their are teachers in your family.

4) The fact that private school teachers have not yet earned many benefit of PS teaching is irrelevent. This is one of the fastest growing areas of teacher unionization. OSSTF represents many private schools now who are fed up with conditions, usually favouritism and is improving conditions there.

5) Everybody who ever attended a public school or reads a newspaper knows when teachers work and when they are off. Many university grads choose professions with far higher pay and then begrudge teachers their holidays. They had a choice.

Doug,
Obviously you are intent on fighting for the “rights” of “hard-working” teachers everywhere.

Let me tell you that if my job all of a sudden became unionized I would quit. My boss can tell me what to do or what to change - NOT my union rep.

Secondly - isn’t it about time we “fought” for rights of children’s education? Or is the message we want the kids to learn that it is really just all about the money.

No one is saying that the pay shouldn’t be commensurate with what we do. But right now I’ve also been dealing with necessary time off due to an “emergency”. I work with civilized people and they are more than sympathetic and understanding to my situation. But in no way should it impact the children, and in no way should I get paid for my time off - I’m OFF, ergo NOT TEACHING, and therefore not paid.

If I don’t like my conditions I may quit; if the school feels I’m not doing the best for the kids, I may be fired. Why can’t simple common sense prevail?

Stop whining and become sensible.

Charter schools would solve many of these problems…..............as long as unions stayed faaaaaaar away.

Doug, you have reinforce the image of teachers working set hours, and the public will continue to see the image of the 5 hour day. As well, teachers should not object to the way the public sees the number of hours work, if unionists keeps insisting they work set hours, when they do not not. Only part of their working day is set, and leaves 3 hours plus missing in action. for each day.

Can’t have it both ways Doug. And no Doug, historically summer holidays was set due to the working industries and culture of the past. Set by the past top level educrats, and not as you have stated by parents. It was institutionalized, when governments started to pay the tab for public education. Prior to the governments, it was the communities, as well as the churches and committed individuals who ran schools according to the working industries and culture of the local community. The hours of operations of a school varied according to the two above factors, funding, and the needs of the community.

Isn’t it about time to have union contracts to reflect the no set hours of a teacher in the 21st century?

Ontario PCs tried to reduce summer by one week. Parents rebelled. Case closed.

Students do far better the more unionized the school system.

Charter schools, as the results roll in are doing no better and often worse than public schools. The issue is poverty.

There is no reason why charters would not be unionized. Many are, eventually most will be.

If not for unions in public schools unions, private school teachers would be paid much less. Supply and Demand.

Nancy,

Read the teachers’ contract, they are all on line.

They are only required to teach their classes. The rest is voluntary.

Nancy,

Teachers are professionals not hourly workers. Beyond class time, they set their own hours as professionals do. Lawyers may have “court time” otherwise they set their own hours.

It is nobodies business except teachers what happens beyond class time as the BC court seems to agree.

Nancy,

Here is a quote from Ms Dare above, “... that all teachers are legally required to do is perform classroom duties during school hours - roughly five hours a day 190 days a year = 950 hours a year. Given that most people work about 250 days a year, this translates to teachers working less than four hours a day over a business year.”  It would appear to me that it would be Ms. Dare reinforcing the outdated notion of ‘set hours’.  We are simply trying to explain the reality of the job.

You will not see union contracts reflect no set hours for several reasons:

1)  The ‘set hours’ are required by the Education Act which supersedes all contracts.

2)  No one can legislate volunteer activity.  By taking on a sports team, a teacher is accepting vicarious liability - if a student is injured during the activity, the teacher can be personally sued by the family.  No one can force someone into a position where they can personally held liable in a lawsuit.

3)  There would never be a way to manage/oversee the activities.  Would principals be expected to drop by a teacher’s home on the weekend to make sure they were marking?  Would teachers be expected to have a punch clock in their home so that they could punch in and out?  Before you say that they could do their extra hours at school, think about how this would fly, “You must work extra hours for free, but so that we can manage it, you must do the extra time at your desk where we can watch you.”  Then they are not extra hours - they become regular ‘set hours’ that you don’t think we should have in the contract.

What normally constitutes “teaching time”?

John,

Teaching time, I suppose, would be the time spent in front of the class.

However, for your benefit and Nancy’s, you need to understand the requirements of the Ed Act. In Ontario, any talk of removing ‘set time’ is irrelevant.  Mike Harris (yes, him again!) and his government set teacher’s supervisory time at 1,250 minutes/week.  That time includes teaching classes, supervising hallways, filling in for absent colleagues (no, not every teacher absence is filled by a supply teacher - cost saving to the public - we don’t get paid extra for teaching extra classes), and any other duties as required by the principal.

Believe me, working in a small board, every principal in every school has been told to max those minutes.  Perhaps TDSB is different, but I couldn’t say.  That leaves a little time during the work day to prep, but the bulk of the marking, prepping, report generation and so on take place outside of the ‘school day’.

Wayne, it is reinforce countless ways to the public on hours work in the system. Pick up any newspaper, read the government sites in times of strikes, and the public hears the same arguments over and over. You can’t have it both ways, regarding the free time tied up in sports, recess and other non- instruction time freely given, and than use it as the argument to bolster for raises and other perks to justify the increases based on the instructional time, prep time, and classroom time.

Been hearing the same arguments over and over since the 1970s, and it is the same song and dance with the profession called education. By the way, any teacher is accepting to take on any liability concerning school activities, on and off the school property, just like a parent takes on risk of being sue, if some accident happens concerning kids. For that matter anyone in today’s society, but schools have a higher risk of being sue directly, bypassing the school insurance settlement mechanism.

I have never suggested a time clock, for teachers or other professionals because they do not have set hours in the first place. Rather ridiculous, but there is a way to include all duties and activities , including holding the kleenex for a young child to blow his nose, that are a natural part of the job. More importantly, it becomes very tiresome when union brass constantly used the free, unpaid time that is used as the battering rod for both the public and the school boards. Often at the expense of the students, and their overall education.

But there has to be a way, that all of the other duties outside of the classroom can be included, as in other professions. Think about the social worker, who probably have volunteer freely to help a child or children, but is part of his or her duties as a social worker, but is not included in the contract. The current contracts turns schools into the have and have nots in terms of sports, arts, afterschool clubs, and more than likely turned some schools into war zones and cliques of students, without any of them learning how to get along, except in the classroom environment. At least, if the activities beyond the classroom are included, it would increase the likelihood of sports, arts, clubs and other activities at each school, and not the ones that can afford it, or have teachers willing to put in the extra time. And students will received a more rounded education, that is not necessarily academic, but are important life skills to have as an adult.

Nancy,

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘haves and have nots’.  If by that you mean some schools have football teams while others do not (for example) - that is the luck of the draw.  Some schools don’t have the student interest for some activities, let alone the relevant teaching staff.  You can’t turn the art teacher into the football coach just because you want a team.  You really don’t understand the legal system.  If the art teacher doesn’t have any background in football, and they are forced to coach and some kid gets hurt and is paralyzed for life - that teacher could lose their home and have their wages garnisheed.  You can’t legislate that.  Yes teachers voluntarily take on coaching jobs - and they voluntarily take on the associated liability - that is understood from the outset.  You need to comprehend that.

We have a wood shop teacher who is really old style - rough and gruff with the students.  One time, the principal stopped by to talk to him.  He told the class, “Shut up you bunch of idiots.” to get them to stop work.  After class the principal called the teacher into her office, she was horrified and told him that he couldn’t say those kinds of things to the students.  His answer, “Really? I didn’t know that.  Can you provide me with a list of all the things I can’t say to the students?”  Your desire for a list of all the professional activities and services we provide to be included in contracts would be the same kind of fool’s errand.  As soon as you thought you had an exhaustive list, someone would come along with something you didn’t include.  It is really much better to leave them unwritten and understood as it now stands.

There is a way, it is in the Rochester teachers’ contract among many others in the USA.

Coach football team = $5000
coach basketball team = $4000

and so on for every school activity down to chess club.
Teachers and management in Canada have long resisted this direction here. That is the alternative. You will have no influence on changing teachers’ contracts. Nobody will be in on that discussion except the ministry, the boards and the teachers. Go talk to the politicians. See how far you get. Not happening.

Wayne, TDSB teachers have an upward limit on the number of oncalls per year per teacher.

Wayne

  I’m not expecting teachers to do a “set time”, rather I ‘d expect teachers to put in whatever hours are required to perform their duties in a professional manner, as most professionals do.  There are some in the profession, however,  who seem convinced that they’re going above and beyond simply by doing anything not spelled out in black and white in the “contract”.  No doubt those zealots are, thankfully, in the small minority.

La-La-Land Is The Setting For More Marxist Control Of Education

British Columbia is indeed in the midst of yet another ?Irresistible Force Meets Immovable Object? scenario — ongoing for 40 years!  In the Bible 40 years in the wilderness finally ends, but out here — no end is in sight.

Even though the imagery — irresistible force meeting an immovable object conjures up a visual explosion — this doesn?t happen here.  Any see-sawing back and forth only serves to buy ?business-as usual? peace.

BUT, one side is relentlessly winning!

One antagonist, the BCTF, consistently gains. The public service workers in the government education industry also benefit. It?s the parents, public, and students who are shafted.

The BCTF is the militant, aggressive, elite-run teachers? federation. Their 40 years of increasing power and influence started in 1972 after the NDP gained electoral power and when radical Marxist Jim MacFarlan was the BCTF president — believing that schools should be used as instruments of social change.

The activities of this union go far beyond bread and butter union interests.  This ongoing progressive project is heavily involved in partisan politics, with members and locals active in provincial and school board elections.  Their hard core values are equality, one common school system, and social justice in the curriculum. The BCTF elite don?t worry about the stripe of government in place (NDP, Socred, Liberal) as they successfully operate as an extra-parliamentary parallel government in education. When I talk about the BCTF elite, I do not mean the average, everyday public school teacher. 

Any Marxist literature will tell you that their aim is a totalitarian world, orderly and manageable and egalitarian.  The one thing most despised is CHOICE.  Autonomy of the individual is to be constrained in favor of the collective will.

An opinion piece in the newspaper recently described free schools and academies which are being organized in England.  Within days, the BCTF had a piece of research loaded with reasons to counter any such ideas.  http://bctf.ca/blogs/research.aspx?id=24425&blogid=7524

One link produced material from the UK where the Head Teachers (principals) are mounting a NEW course to handle parents.  Parents:  Partners or Enemies?  http://www.naht.org.uk/welcome/naht-events/courses-list/parents-partners-or-enemies/

I see the BCTF as viewing parents as interfering, as threats, and as enemies to their agenda. Writing of report cards is a big issue in this ?controlled? strike with even the Minister of Education concerned.  But, the BCTF was victorious in having this illegal withholding of report cards from parents to continue.  This one piece of ?victory? is the one that really concerns me.  Because it is the parents who are ultimately responsible to see their child gets a proper education and report cards are an important tool for deciding if they should advocate for more help, support the school, or remove the child to another setting.  These are state teachers who are withholding progress report cards.

It is this one VICTORY which, I believe, fulfills a Marxist goal of making the state the owner of the child.

Squeezing everything within a 5 to 6 hour instruction day, is it not already crowded with the must dos’? Would it not be better for contracts to be under a 8 hour day, keeping all the must dos’ within the 5 hour period, and the remainder 3 hours will be at the discretion of the individual teachers or the school, of what they would like to see happen in their schools?  Eliminate the word of voluntary in contracts, so parents will no longer hear teachers exclaimed that their tutorials, or being a coach is done on their own time, and not being paid for it. The first time I heard my own time and not being paid for it, was at a parent-teacher interview recently. Silently, where did this one come from, and I chose to ignore it, and stay on target when I responded.

If the contracts recognizes the hours, teachers spends beyond the 5 hour instructional day, teachers would be incline to use the 3 hours on things that are important and have value for themselves and the students. For one teacher, it could be a chess club, and for another it could be exploring the world of imprinting creativity through art. Whatever the activity, the value for students, is improving the cognitive brain, sportsmanship, discipline, fair competition, and other skills that are easily transferred to other aspects of life, including sitting in the classroom, learning the life cycle of a cell.

If teachers were paid and recognized beyond the 5 hour instruction day, how many teachers would sit back, and do nothing beyond the 5 hour day?  Not many, judging other professions who really do not have set hours, and readily accept being on call as part of their duties and their vocation.

As for parents, no wonder there is great difficulty in engaging parents within the public education system, and are eager to participate, when their experiences, what they read and hear, is always being compared to the dos and don’t lists of teachers’ contracts and schools acts as to what actions and activities are allowed and not allowed.

Too much money is being spent on changing the parents to become more like the teachers and the educrats thinking, and not enough money being spent on the fallout when parents eventually accepts the limitations imposed by the contracts, the regulation regime, and acts on their own to provide for their children.

John,

I think you would agree that most teachers act professionally and take their duties and volunteer activities seriously.  Which is why I don’t understand Nancy’s desire to quantify everything.

Yes, there are zealots (and we have a few good examples above) - on BOTH sides of the issue.  Where they do their cause no good, and do not advance serious debate, is when they spread misinformation (or even simply opinion) as proven fact.

I wonder how many teachers and principals would pay a fee in North America, to be schooled in the 101 ways in ensuring parents work for the best interests of the school system, and not the best interests of their own children, and their education.

“Parents can be difficult.  Parents can complain.  They can be challenging and even aggressive towards you and your team.  This can create anxiety and distress and can affect children’s learning and staff morale.

This one-day course will show you how to make the most of your relationships with parents and carers.  Learn strategies and skills to help you and your staff to prevent difficulties.  It will show you how to reduce complaints, deal with them, and to manage aggression.

This course acknowledges the challenges that schools face from a growing culture of complainers, some of whom attack via the internet.

The day will help you consider how to effect positive change and to develop an action plan.  It will give you skills that, whilst not making complaints go away, will help you and your team to handle them in a more constructive and healthy way.
http://www.naht.org.uk/welcome/naht-events/courses-list/parents-partners-or-enemies/

We may have to wait for world domination by BCTF. As we mentioned, BC teachers make
$20 000 less than teachers in Tory Alberta next door and Liberal Ontario.

I think the Marxists you must be speaking of are Groucho, Harpo and Chico.

The “hard core values of equality, one school system and social justice in the curriculum” I am afraid they would plead guilty because this is what most of the population wants. The polls in BC show that the public supports all public money to public schools although the government continues to pay up to half of private school tuition depending on provincial criteria. Eventually this will be phased out since the government cannot afford this wasteful and unnecessary use of public money when times are tight.

There is nothing illegal about withholding report cards during a strike. When a union is on strike, they are allowed to withdraw any service they like and the board must continue to pay them full pay unless they lock them out. After the board locks them out, the parents and the public now blame the board because under the strike “at least the kids were in school being taught every day.”

The boards have been to court to try to reduce pay if services are reduced but not eliminated. They have been repeatedly told by the courts, “your only recourse is to lock them out. You cannot cut their pay if they show up and teach their classes.”

Nancy,

You’re still not getting this concept.  By moving voluntary activity to paid activity, you INCREASE the liability.  As a member of the executive of my local little theater a few years back, our lawyer explained all this to us.  Since you’re not believing me, go ask a lawyer.

It is nonsensical to increase the legal liability of all teachers for the sake of one team that didn’t get organized because the school was unable to find a coach.  Here is some more for you to think about:

1)  Making coaching mandatory still won’t get you the team you are looking for.  The idea of a coach is not just to sit on the bench - but they need to have skills and experience to help the players IMPROVE.  If no one on a school staff has played volleyball, there would be little point in forcing someone to coach it.  If you have a team in the league without a good coach, they will likely lose every game.  It’s not fun for the kids, and it is an embarrassment to the school. Kind of funny how you want to push unqualified people into coaching, but you don’t want unqualified people teaching your child math and reading.  Sounds to me like this culture of entitlement is creeping into your vocabulary as well.  The school and board does not ‘owe’ the public every possible team, club and band.

2) There has always been the opportunity for COMMUNITY volunteers to get involved.  If your school can’t find a coach, ask a parent to do it.  You’ll probably find, as our school did, that demands for a team suddenly go silent.  There’s that culture of entitlement again.  Currently, I am on the executive of minor hockey - same thing happens there.  People ‘chew’ and complain about the rules and decisions of the organization.  We say, “Come to the Annual General Meeting and run for a position on the executive.  We need volunteers and you could help make the rules.”  Funny, they are suddenly ‘too busy’ to be involved.

The union “encourages” teachers to volunteer for extra curricular activities. As a local president of one school with 54 teachers I always reminded the teachers that if each teacher took just one activity, that would be 54 activities. They would range from football team, a major undertaking to chess club. I believe in them and coached the SR basketball team every year. The fact remains that they are VOLUNTARY and attempts to legislate them or impose them in negotiations have always failed.

If someone thinks that they would become compulsory but also not require radical increases in wages they are very naive. The public is getting a super deal for free on the good graces of the teachers because they believe in this.

As soon as the 1995-2003 government increased teacher’s teaching and supervision time there was an instant drop off in EC activities. The union played no role in that. Teachers simply said “I no longer have the time for that.” Today lets say the 2003-present government has so burdened teachers with endless bureaucratic paperwork on the grounds of “accountability” that direct time for student help and EC activities have continued to suffer.

People need to learn that “if you push in here it sticks out there”. Every “accountability” activity comes at the expense of student-teacher contact time in one form or another.

“People need to learn that ?if you push in here it sticks out there?. Every ?accountability? activity comes at the expense of student-teacher contact time in one form or another. “

So, that would mean teachers are there for the money, and as well, students are paying the price for an education, so unions and school boards can play their games. Any fallout, is the price the students pay. Sounds correct, because my child’s class played a heavy price with no EC activities between grade 1 to grade 5. The excuse, no money but in grade 6 the EC activities was back on, and a 21 % percent increase in salaries.

Thanks Doug, for being honest. Now has anyone thought why students of any age, and parents are not engage with their local schools?

Nancy,

Now you’re being silly.  Of course teachers are in it for the money.  We are a single income home with three children.  This is my salaried job - I get paid for it.  However, my first priority is my family.  I must do what is best for them.

That being said, as a teacher I give far and beyond the time I am supposed to give - and so do most teachers.  Unlike when I was working in industry, where as soon as I left the office, I forgot work and went on with my life.  Teachers do not just turn off work.  Teaching is more like running your own business as I did.  I couldn’t just ‘turn it off’.  I was constantly thinking, planning, organizing and doing just about every task I also paid others to do.

What Doug has said is that there are only so many hours in a day.  If management increases supervision in one area, teachers are not going to do that extra AND coach.  Sorry if that bursts your bubble.  Again, sounds as if you feel EC was owed to you.  As I said above, nothing was stopping the parents from organizing EC - you had 5 years to do it, how much was done?  I’ll take a wild stab at it and say none. 

As far as increasing salaries to get EC back - sounds about right.  Sorry if that bursts your bubble too.  No different with my employees.  How do you think they would have reacted if I told them they had to work another two hours per day, but I wouldn’t pay them for it?  They’d have told me to take a hike.

Actually Nancy, it is a factor of TIME. There are only so many hours in a day so that when you extend teaching time, force teachers to do more on-calls, force them to spend hours and hours on useless bureaucratic paper work to satisfy someone’s political sense of accountability, the loser in all of this will be teacher time with students especially EC activities since they are purely voluntary.

Hmmmm…............

WRT Nancy’s comment above, it looks like we’re beginning to repeat ourselves. Please note my last comment above…............scroll up quite a bit.

Nancy’s last point is the point many of us are trying to make: something in the accountability process is simply not right.

No one wants to take on more work, more responsibility without adequate compensation.

However, Tunya’s comments above are right on. Someone somewhere is hoping to legislate everything. We want to scrutinize everyone’s actions and throw it under the term “accountability” for fear of being sued.

As I look at all of the above comments the conclusion is simple: we have become a materialistic society, everyone is in it for themselves, and those who care are swimming up the creek without a paddle. If we need rules and regulations for every little thing, and we will quibble over doing something for nothing, then that ladies and gentlemen does not say much about us as a society trying to educate future generations.

As for parents not wanting to become involved - I’m sure most would want to if they could stretch themselves further. Perhaps if we wanted more involvement we should limit our requests. If everyone just gave a little bit more…..specifically, i.e. please donate 1 item for our fundraising raffle, then we could have “more” involvement.

But to say to anyone, parent or teacher, please “run” a chess club once a week - well which day? I have after school activities with my kids and on my two days at home, have much to do. But ask me - could you supervise a chess club once a month for an hour, and I could do that.

Unfortunately the burden of organizing would fall on the shoulders of one person - at least until things fell into place. Perhaps, rather than raising teacher’s salaries, there could be a paid position of having 1 or 2 people per school organize, manage, and recruit parents and teachers to help mold and educate future generations outside of Ministry and Board Mandated guidelines and requirements with EC activities and family fundraisers and community events…..................oh wait, but someone somewhere could sue if something happened, and what to do if a situation arises that hasn’t been written about in a handbook for at least 2-3 pages….........................my my…........maybe our generation is so big on legislation and compensation it isn’t qualified to raise the future one. Then we look at our kids and wonder why they are so “me’ focused. Apples don’t fall far from their trees.

Neither Teachers? Union Nor The BLOB Welcomes Parental Autonomy

Of course, the reasons are clear why the BCTF and the combined BLOB take advantage of any crisis possible to squeeze out meaningful parental participation.

The parent voice was not at the collective bargaining procedures which OKed the illegal withholding of progress report cards to parents.  No-one spoke up against parent rights being on the table and for these rights to be eliminated just because the sides need bargaining chips with which to trade.

Report cards were deemed to be an administrative, therefore not essential, teacher job.  Yet it is clearly written in the School Act that the classroom teachers are to assess, write, and see that progress report cards are delivered to parents.  So, not just parent rights are a chip, so is the rule of law!

Let?s look at the larger picture.

In a welfare state, big government is the main feature by which social services are delivered.  There are many public service jobs to be had.  Not just unionized teachers and unionized janitors, lunch ladies, etc.  The whole range of BLOBers also have public jobs at stake ? principals, superintendents, counselors, school board trustees, 1,000s of bureaucrats, etc., etc.

If more parents chose to opt-out for private schools, still contributing to the public good of educated citizens, all these bloated inefficient public jobs would be reduced or eliminated.  BLOB = Bloated Learning Organized Bureaucracy.

That?s why report cards are such an issue.  Without all the palaver of parents having to deal with appointments, emails, phone calls, etc. one simple card should tell you if your child is meeting expectations and is at grade level.  The decision is easy —stay and play or leave for another choice.

A tutoring service here in BC during the ?controlled strike? is offering reduced rates to assess your child so that parents are not kept in the dark.  I strongly feel that these private assessment fees should be paid by the public school system during this period of withheld report cards.  I think there is even justification for a legal suit or small claims court action.

Keeping parents in the dark has a long history.  Report cards have had many ups and down in usefulness even at the best of times.  Mystification is a favorite game of the education system. 

Our teachers? union, the BCTF, is now playing the game of ?relationships?.  Teachers, during this work-to-rule period, are encouraged to develop relationships with parents.  There is considerable talk about the Finnish style called ?public assurance? —  involving parents and community members trusting educators, allowing them to focus on teaching rather than on public relations campaigns or high stakes testing to assure accountability.

The producer side keeps winning.  The side that loses is the consumer side ?  pupils, parents, and taxpayer public.

You are correct, nobody supports parent autonomy including most parents. When people have a free vote to allow vouchers or similar schemes they are soundly rejected as they were in Ontario.

Parents are at the table. They are called trustees and MPPs, (MLAs in your case). Who else would represent parents? You seem to be down on democracy because it never comes out your way.

Warmed over “Cold War” rhetoric hardly helps your case.

Finland has the world’s best education system mainly because they develop fine teachers and then leave them alone to teach without constant interference and second guessing.

I think I mentioned that BC teachers make $20 000 less than Tory Alberta. That amounts to a massive subsidy to parents and the taxpayer.

The courts seem to say the teachers are right. Are they part of the BLOB as well? Conspiracy theories don’t win many converts.

Tunya,

You seem to believe that teachers cannot stop report cards even though they are on a “legal strike”. Unions can strike any aspect of the job they choose. Those are the rules. The CAW can close some plants and leave others open if they choose to. The managers cannot simply cut the pay in response. Management has one (and only one) possible sanction. They can lock the teachers out. At that point there would be no report cards and no school either. BCTF is being very responsible so as not to inconvenience the parents who must go to work.

If the boards “lock out” the fact that there is no school becomes 100% the fault of the boards and the trustees phone will ring off the hook until they end the lock out. If it goes on too long, they will not be re-elected. Ask what happened to Mayor Sam Sullivan who allowed a garbage strike to go on too long?

We know that you don’t like the rules but it seems both major parties in BC do like them or they would be changed.

It makes you seem like a party of one.

“I think I mentioned that BC teachers make $20 000 less than Tory Alberta. That amounts to a massive subsidy to parents and the taxpayer.”

Had a great chuckle over Doug’s version of subsidy.

“What Does Subsidy Mean?
A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction. The subsidy is usually given to remove some type of burden and is often considered to be in the interest of the public.

Politics play an important part in subsidization. In general, the left is more in favor of having subsidized industries, while the right feels that industry should stand on its own without public funds.”

Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/subsidy.asp#ixzz1ffZ9eolZ

Sounds more like a case of sour grapes that Doug has, judging from the news reports, and blogs, that merit pay may be on the agenda of the boards.
“As British Columbia’s teachers head into their fourth week of a teach-only job action, the BC Teachers’ Federation and the BC Public School Employer’s Association could not seem farther apart in collective bargaining.”
http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/09/26/Fair-Wage-For-Teachers/index.html

“Kevin Falcon?s merit pay proposal for teachers has been met with much derision, but it?s found at least one fan in Delta School Board Chair Dale Saip.

?I think anytime that you can offer opportunities for teachers to better themselves and have that supported in a financial and in a real way, we need to examine that,? Saip told The Tyee.

?How it?s implemented needs some further discussion, but I think it?s a very important part of how we develop our schools.?

http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Education/2011/01/05/Delta-School-Board-chair-supports-Falcon/

The strike action is going no where too fast, and is not hurting the students or the parents at the moment, but is making busy busy work for the administrations of schools and school boards. Sooner or later, report cards will have to be release, and it would mean teachers will have to release their data to the principles and board staff so they can fill in the report cards, with or without the teachers’ support. In all school acts, stating report cards is the accepted method to report to parents. Sooner or later, as the strike drags on, the school boards will have to release the report cards on a legal basis, as well as the legal consequences of the missing paper work regarding education services of students, that extends beyond the classroom. On that note, some private firms are offering reductions in the price of private psycho-educational assessments, and other assessments for students who are in need of them, and facing the long dark tunnel called waiting lists, waiting for their name to appear on the list.

Funny thing Doug, your remarks is telling of the current BLOB and their attitudes towards parents. Parents become useful footballs for unions, and the rest of the blob when it serves their best interests. But than you state, parents are only represented by the trustees and MLAs, and should have no voice except the filter of the trustees and MLAs. Should be careful with your words, because some parents might read it, and take it as the reason why they should no longer be involved with the local schools, dealing with a monopoly that only pretends to have the best interests of their children.

And I have heard that excuse expressed by parents over the years, why they do not get involved.

“

There are 2 parties to collective bargaining, the workers and the employer. The parents need to express any concerns through their democratically elected representitives. This is the way it works.

There is no “seat at the table” for parents in school board negotiations.

Funny some people want to offer merit pay “for the teachers” - the teachers reject it full stop. It does not work and that has been proven over and over. Vanderbilt U study proves it. Bloomberg in NYC just cancelled it because it is very expensive and nothing changed when he brought it in.

Doug,

“It makes you seem like a party of one.” - Well you’re really close.  The Libertarian Party got 0.1% of the popular vote in Ontario and BC in the last Federal election.  So, she is a party of .1%, not 1.  You’re just out by a decimal place. 

When she talks about private schools, she doesn’t mean charters, she wants to abolish all government funding of schools entirely.  Those quaint views may have had some traction in Thomas Jefferson’s time when nations could afford to educate 10% of the population.  However, today’s knowledge-based economy requires that we educate as many people as possible - that or we’ll have to raise immigration significantly while good Canadian kids collect garbage and flip burgers.

?It makes you seem like a party of one.? - Well you?re really close.  The Libertarian Party got 0.1% of the popular vote in Ontario and BC in the last Federal election.  So, she is a party of .1%, not 1.  You?re just out by a decimal place. 

When she talks about private schools, she doesn?t mean charters, she wants to abolish all government funding of schools entirely.  Those quaint views may have had some traction in Thomas Jefferson?s time when nations could afford to educate 10% of the population.  However, today?s knowledge-based economy requires that we educate as many people as possible - that or we?ll have to raise immigration significantly while good Canadian kids collect garbage and flip burgers.

Posted by Wayne Scott Ng on 12/05 at 01:41 PM

Well said my brother

Nancy, Here is your Merit Pay Study. Basically all studies find the same thing.

http://peabody.vanderbilt.edu/ncpi_point_findings.xml

My point was, that some in the BC education systems is talking about merit pay, and studying it, starting just months before the strike action. And still are talking about it in the inner circles. It makes one wonder, what other inner circles in other provinces are talking about merit pay.

Kevin Falcon shot his mouth off about merit pay during a Liberal leadership race against Christy Clark. The BC Liberals are so low in the polls right now vs the NDP I doubt they are stupid enough to repeat it.

This bad idea has been proven wrong many many times but the corporate world cannot get it out of their heads that schools and school systems are not corporations and do not operate with the same incentives. All teachers reject merit pay including the best teachers. When a system is “imposed” from the outside, workers will work in unison to prove that it does not work which is one of the primary probems with the entire reform movement. It is done “to teachers” it is not done “with teachers”.

If teachers reject a reform, by definition, it will not work.

The Irresistible Force Advances

Like a steady juggernaut, the teachers? union in BC makes steady progress in advancing its progressive agenda.

1.  For this strike the BCTF gained the right to NOT prepare progress report cards, even though they are legally mandated by the School Act.  Three per year delivered to parents.  I have flagged this action as illegal and that withholding of this reporting undermines parental rights to information about their child in state schools. Parents were not at the table when this parental right was bargained away.  By this loss to families and ?gain? to the teachers? union the state has superseded some parental rights.

2.  Parents may still get assessment information from teachers, but the ONUS is now on the parents to request information or a meeting.  What this does in effect is make the parent a supplicant and frankly quite humiliating.  The parent is denied graded information by which to judge if they should stay, advocate for more services or leave.  Parents in effect enter into a contract when they sign their child in, fully expecting straightforward periodic reports.  This role-switch from rights to privilege is not a good sign for civil society.  The state is seen as the monopoly provider of an essential service and people should be ?grateful? for it. (!)

3.  Public school teachers and supporters protested loudly in front of the Premiers constituency office to protest ?stalled? talks last week.

4.  Four school trustees, teachers, in Victoria are expecting to defy the School Act and their Oath of Office by saying they will not support a balanced budget but will opt for a ?needs? budget when this matter comes up.

5.  In one of the most affluent communities in Canada teachers read out, to the visiting Minister of Education, a very negative and adversarial letter.  http://staffroomconfidential.blogspot.com/2011/12/teachers-read-message-to-george-abbott.html#comment-form

6.  The BCTF has provided moral and financial support to Occupy Vancouver.

7.  The cost of mailing out Blank Report Cards is expensive.  It is on orders of the Deputy Minister that school boards are mailing out report cards and this is rather expensive versus students taking them home.  How many services or teacher hours could this hollow exercise have funded in our 60 school boards?  This is an expensive forced expense because of the current strike. 

8.  The BCTF and its locals are actively building coalitions to aid in their polarizing efforts to gain support.  The BC Civil Liberties Association had joined ?freedom of expression? call of some trustee candidates in Victoria who defied the school board policy of not campaigning near or on school grounds.

9.  In New Westminster 6 of 7 trustees were deemed in conflict of interest in naming a representative of their board to the bargaining agent, BCPSEA, as the employer in teacher bargaining.  These six were either teachers or affiliated with unions (CUPE) of school staffs.

10.  The BC School Trustees is having their annual Academy this weekend.  One Reception is being sponsored by the BCTF and another Reception is sponsored by CUPE (Canadian Union Of Public Employees.  These two unions do massive work behind the scenes in helping elect trustee candidates of their choice and now they rub shoulders with trustees over free food.

Don?t think for one minute that this irresistible force, left-wing teacher unionism and their progressive agendas are not being advanced.  They may not get wage increases, or smaller class sizes, but they are gaining incrementally on the ideological front in Canada?s Left Coast ? La-La-Land.  Not laughable but ominous!

What part of “they are on a legal strike” do you not get Tunya. When the strike is legal they can “strike” any or every service they provide. It doesn’t matter what the law says about report cards if they are on strike. If they were out “on the bricks” would you still expect a report card? Preposterous.