pobod

The Louisiana charters are a total disaster. the vast majority earned a D or an F from a very sympathetic government.

The Washington school system, another disaster under Michelle Rhee with a massive cheating scandal. Vouchers have yet to win a democratic vote anywhere. They have been foisted on a few cities by right wing governments

Why are Democrats opposed to school vouchers?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=702545

Hmm seems Dr. Fuller was right:
““…Those of us with money have the capacity to choose and the great hypocrisy that operates are those individuals who would never put their own children in certain schools denying poor parents the capacity to do it.  We have teachers who teach in schools they would never put their own children in, demanding that other peoples’ children stay there.  I find that to be hypocritical.  We’ve got politicians running around talking about how important the public school structure is and then you ask them, ‘Well, where do your children go to school?’”

Bravo Dr. Fuller!

When one considers the historical cultural patterns of the public education system - it was deliberately designed to provide three tiers of education quality based on the needs of the upper class education professionals who believe that the best public education should be confined and contained within the upper class of society. As for the rest of society, according to the educationalists of the day, the class levels below the upper class should only have an education of common knowledge.

Over the years and into the 21st century - the historical cultural patterns of educating by class,  are thoroughly enmeshed and embedded into the public education system and its structure. Today, the public educationalists will fight tooth and nail against raising the education standards, the ability of parents to choose their children’s education, and even the civil rights of children having the right and access to education services that are beyond the standardized classroom - all done on the social-income rankings of students.

Who do they picked on? In Canada, it is the plumbers. If Mr. Moore was a lawyer or even a high ranking educator, the Moore boy would have received the education services without too much of a struggle. When Mr. Moore the plumber objected, the school board officials told him if you don’t like it, its too bad. As the Supreme Court hearing has reveal - the school board did not do everything possible to provide the education services for the Moore boy. The Moore case provides a window on the discriminatory processes that are embedded in the public education that reveals the different tiers of education quality based on the social-income status of the families.

It absolutely amazes me how the public education advocates slams charter schools and other choices while ignoring the deep embedded education policies and practices based on the social-income status of students within the public education system.

How Bad are the Public Schools? - Is there a crisis?: The Battle Over School Choice

“I don’t know of very many people at any point along the political spectrum who want to look forward 10 or 20 years and see an America divided along lines of race, ethnicity, and class. I think that all Americans of good will want to see that those divisions narrow in the next generation. Public education reform that brings all public schools up to a common standard of achievement and expectation is one of the best ways of closing that gap that I can think of.”  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/vouchers/howbad/crisis.html

I shall assume that Doug wants education done on the basis of race, ethnicity and class. Otherwise, why would Doug call down charter schools, and ignore the cultural patterns of the public education system that are insisting that education services according to the social-income status of students?

pobod

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/03/29/vouchers-dont-work-evidence-from-milwaukee/

pobod

Most of the organizations that fight for the downtroden oppose vouchers and want strict controls on charters.

NAACP opposes vouchers.

You are very confused Nancy. Vouchers and charters INCREASE segregation by class and race they do not decrease it. There are 2 battles.

the first is to keep education 95% public the second is to make public education ever more democratic and enfused with an equity agenda.

We have never never graduated as many poor and minority students, however there is still room for improvement.

Vouchers and charters are backward steps.

As one speaker at the NAACP said “we are the national leaders of our community and we all are here due to the efforts of the public system.”

Look who funds efforts to voucherize America. The same people who support the Tea Party. The same people who lost the civil war and still have not gotten over it.

Than shall we assume that Doug is in favour of education by the social-income ranking of students - I shall assume that Doug wants education done on the basis of race, ethnicity and class. Otherwise, why would Doug call down charter schools, and ignore the cultural patterns of the public education system that are insisting that education services according to the social-income status of students?

Bears repeating to Doug - Now unto another set of data streams within the public education system. On both sides of the border - the public education system loves to hide the numbers from the public. The percentages of grade graduates falling within the ranges of (50-59), (60-69), (70-79)..........  The public educationalists don’t like to talk about this set of numbers, given that the majority of students are graduating with averages between 50 % to 69 %. Below is a set of papers from BC. On page 11, STP Fast Fact
#10:
High Achievers Number and percentage of grade 12
graduates who achieve high Academic GPA’s (of 75%
or higher

Between 2005 to 2010 - on average 33 % of grade 12 graduates achieve 75 % or higher.
http://www.aved.gov.bc.ca/student_transitions/documents/stp_fast_facts.pdf

It is rather an alarming number, for the 21st century because the number has not change much since the 1960s. So what happens to the other 66 % of grade 12 graduates…............one would have to read the front pages and why the political and economic powers are pushing for reforms that would include education choice.

That said, who from the organizations that opposes school choice will be first up to bat to explain why children should not be allowed educational choice? I elect this character of NAACP - “NAACP is opposed to school vouchers and to charter schools. Both drain money from public schools. Our main focus is that we want to have high quality, free public education. We will do what it takes to improve the existing schools and see what happens.” - See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/community/220667231_Montclair_NAACP_offers_discussion_on_voucher_and_charter_schools_tonight.html#sthash.zg4qSt7F.dpuf

From the same folks who launched a lawsuit - The Right to Read against a public education school district. Making the above statement, knowing full well that the current public education system and its historical past has not been kind to the students based on the lower social-income status of students and schools. The Right to Read lawsuit will probably go all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court because shouldn’t each and every student no matter the social-income status be entitle to learn to read well, so they too can access the knowledge and educational opportunities of the public schools?

Doug’s remarks - “the first is to keep education 95% public the second is to make public education ever more democratic and enfused with an equity agenda.”

Is the typical response from the opposing side of educational choice. A) the only thing public about the public education system is the financing that hails from the taxpayers purse. B) the public education system was never designed to be democratic, but it was designed to offer courses learning about the democratic processes. C) An equity agenda of unequal portions and unfairness based on the social-income status of students.

Evidence -  to the above is in the data streams across society that points to the fact, the public education system is only against vouchers and other choices because of the loss of political and legal authority in a monopoly that was designed only to look after the best interests of the educators. When the public education systems starts to lose their supply of students…...the collective - the public education system screams out in the same way when a student loses a textbook. The threatening letters are sent to the parents that differs little from the collection agencies.

This also bears repeating - “I don’t know of very many people at any point along the political spectrum who want to look forward 10 or 20 years and see an America divided along lines of race, ethnicity, and class. I think that all Americans of good will want to see that those divisions narrow in the next generation. Public education reform that brings all public schools up to a common standard of achievement and expectation is one of the best ways of closing that gap that I can think of.” 
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/vouchers/howbad/crisis.html

It is the public education system cultural patterns that does not allow to bring all public schools up to a common standard of achievement to close the achievement gap regardless of the social-income status of students. Meanwhile, there is Doug making a living off his private school, while demonizing school choice. Go figure…..........

pobod

After 22 years in Milwaukee there is zero evidence that Vouchers improve anything. Same in Cleveland, same in Washington same in Florida, Ohio and Indiana.

Same with charters. There are a few charters that do well, most do not and on average they struggle to come up to the public school level.

There is zero academic advantage in either vouchers or charters. None nada zilch zip. It is a THEORY, it does not work in PRACTICE.

It is simply not worth the effort.

If so Doug, if there is zero advantage, than why can’t the other public schools outpace the charter and vouchered schools in each area of achievement and comparison?

It seems to me, the public schools can’t stand the heat of competition and more so when the public school parents start to demand some education services that the public schools are no longer willing to give.

If I remember correctly, the vast majority of due process hearings on education matters are coming out of the public education system. You should check the figures on due process hearings when public schools for the most part are not willing to cede to the demands of parents. For public schools it is the unwillingness to provide education services that are educational in nature that allows students to progress academically.  As some American parents have stated, providing free breakfast won’t do much to get their children up to grade level in the 3 Rs. Not if the children are 2 years behind….......nor kicking them off the sports teams for sins committed by the children in their off time and off school property. The latter is one of the newest excuses being used, and there could be another lawsuit brewing in one of the Maritime provinces.  Otherwise, as I was reading the article, an image popped in my head, of teachers acting badly in their off time, caught on the i-phone and sent to the proper officials of the school board, trustees and the principal of the school. Last time I check, teachers are humans too and thus are quite capable of human errors.

pobod

Many public charters in the USA are actually profit making ventures.

How do privateers make real money when they are almost restricted to the public budget?

They increase class size, use uncertified teachers pay them less work them harder and keep out any students that cost more than average to educate. this is special ed and English learners.

On the contrary- non-profit charter schools is the majority versus profit charter schools.

http://nepc.colorado.edu/files/EMO-profiles-10-11_0.pdf

And here - http://www.charterschoolcenter.org/news/report-profiles-compares-profit-and-nonprofit-education-management-organizations-nationwide

On the contrary - charter schools like their counterparts uses teachers that have attended teachers’ faculties…...ergo are certified teachers. Unless Doug thinks the only certified teachers are the ones’ that pay union dues?

pobod

The non-profit private schools simply hire a management company that is a profit making company.

Eva Moskowitz Success Academy non-profit. Pays her $400 000 to be CEO, public money. A total scam. You need to read Ravitch’s new book Nancy. Charter schools especially cyber-charters have become totally corrupted and are one big scam perpetrated to enrich a few people with public dollars.

Googgle Charter school corruption, you have enough reading for the next few years. The Americn people are caatching up to the scams but it takes time.

They are totlly corrupt and rotten to the core.

What about the public education system, Doug?  Before one cast’s judgement, better check to see if the public education system is clean as a whistle. A lot of profit making is happening at the school district and in the education stakeholders. How much profit is raked in by the Ontario teachers’ union selling an assortment of manuals, lessons, and charging rather high fees for teacher development?? 

As for big salaries - go to any school board and then the education ministry - not a salary below 100,000 with the CEO of the school board making at least 200,000 and the only staff that is making less but well above the private market - are the people who answer the phones and that is if they can be bother to answer the phones. One thing that is common across Canada, getting a live person at the school board is a rare treat among parents. 

Read my link - it will tell you the ABCs of the charters - nevertheless - the nonprofit charter schools are in the majority. I was correcting a misconception or one of the many false narratives on the go by the anti-charter people. As for Ravitch, she is only interested in profiting off the public education system, so she can keep her livelihood on the go. Now that she has burned her bridges - she is at the end - the teachers’ unions who will be making her bacon for the next 10 years.

pobod

teachers unions selling manuals. That is part of their job. They are also professional associations

large salaries? Are you kidding me? Success Academy is a rounding error vs the size of school boards but Eva pays herself $400 000 with public money. The Deputy Minister of Education does not make that much.

The charters SAY they are public but they intantly hire a private management company to run their affairs.

Look across the country Nancy. They have become totally corrupted in 20 years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mike-debonis/wp/2013/10/02/charter-school-corruption/


http://www.alternet.org/education/who-profiting-charters-big-bucks-behind-charter-school-secrecy-financial-scandal-and


http://www.salon.com/2013/08/15/school_reformers_give_a_lesson_in_corruption/

http://pandodaily.com/2013/08/26/smoke-and-mirrors-mask-corruption-at-pennsylvanias-largest-cyber-charter-school/

http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.ca/


http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.ca/2013/10/dealing-with-corruption-in-dcs-charter.html

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/philly-online-schools-head-charged-corrupti

The American charter school industry is corrupt from top to bottom. There are headlines like this across the country every day.

pobod

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/10/15/what-you-need-to-know-about-new-york-citys-charter-schools/

pobod

http://dianeravitch.net/2013/10/16/politico-vouchers-are-1-billion-waste-of-taxpayer-dollars/

Vouchers have been a total failure